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Summer:
This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image self worth, anti dieting and intersectional feminism. I am your host. Summer innan, a professionally trained coach specializing in body image self worth and confidence, and the best selling author of body image remix, if you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale, then you have come to the right place. Welcome to the show.

This is episode 323, and I’m joined by Ivy Felicia, the body relationship coach. This is part one of our two part discussion on navigating the evolving relationship we both have with our bodies as we age. In this first part, we’re talking about the challenges that we have with our aging bodies, how our relationship with our bodies has shifted, what messages we internalized about aging when we were growing up, and what we love about aging. You can find all the links mentioned at summer innan.com, forward slash, 323, I want to give a shout out to nefties, who left this review. Summer’s body image series is just what I needed to tie my long work on haze and intuitive eating with the body I live in. She blends research, insight and compassion and makes concepts relatable and easy to grasp. Thank you so much for leaving that review. It only takes a minute. You can leave a review by going to Apple podcast, search for eat, the rules and click readings and reviews. Or you can also leave a review on Spotify. I believe anything helps, and subscribing to the show also helps, if you have the financial means to do so, you can support the show, be it kofi, that’s K O dash, fi.com, forward slash summer in and in. And you can make a monthly contribution for as little as $5 a month. You can help keep the show on the air, and you’ll get my mini course conquering negative body talk. You can always go to the body image coach com to get all the other free resources I have, including the 10 day body confidence makeover, as well as my body image coaching roadmap for providers. So that’s for people who are therapists, coaches, other wellness professionals who work with people who may have body image struggles. I have a separate email list for you and a guide, and you can get that at summer Inn and in.com forward slash roadmap.

I am really excited about this conversation. It’s it’s not so much an interview, it’s more it’s a conversation. You’re like a fly on the wall listening to Ivy and I talking about aging. And so I hope you enjoy this first part. Part two will be out in a couple of weeks.

Hi Ivy,

Ivy:
hi summer.

Summer:
How are you?

Ivy:
I’m doing well. I’m excited to be here, excited to dig into things and have a good conversation with you today.

Summer:
Me too. I’m excited as well. I think we for anyone listening to us. We had a conversation a few months ago about having this conversation, because I think we’re both, we’re both kind of in this personally waiting through different experiences of aging and how that influences our relationship with our body, and I think for both of us, we know a lot of people that follow us are also in that same journey, for lack of a better word,

Ivy:
yes, it’s definitely which we’ll get into, but it’s been an interesting expansion of the conversation around like body image and our relationship with our bodies and all those things, because we’ve both been doing this over a decade now. So as your body changes, you know the journey changes as well. So that’s what’s exciting about this.

Summer:
Yeah, that is the truth. So I think we talked about doing some just some personal introductions, because I know that the people listening to this through my podcast, although you’ve been on the podcast a couple times before, they may not know who you are and vice versa. So do you want to go first and just talk a little bit about who you are in your work?

Ivy:
Sure. So I’m Ivy Felicia, the body relationship coach. I’m a certified holistic wellness coach and body image expert, and I help people who feel frustration, shame, anger around their bodies. I help them make peace with their bodies through weight, neutral, holistic wellness and radical self care. So yeah, that’s me

Summer:
great, and I’m Summer in and in I am a professionally trained coach that specializes in helping people with body image, self worth and confidence, and I’ve been doing that since 2014 and I’m currently doing my masters of counseling, and we’ll be doing a practicum and a private practice in. In June, 2025 right? For anyone listening to this, I keep thinking it’s 2026 I’m not that far ahead yet, 2025 and with a specific focus on on feminist therapy, and I’ve dedicated a lot of the research I’ve done in school to eating disorders in midlife. And so it’s just been really interesting to look at aging and body image from an academic perspective as well, and look at kind of how it’s been studied, very limited quantities of studies, and the dynamics at play so and then I host a podcast called Eat the rules, which is where this is being broadcast, on on my end and Ivy, we’ve had conversations before about being highly sensitive people and how that influences our relationship with our body as well. I know that you’ve been on my show before talking about navigating chronic health issues and your relationship with your body, so I will, I’ll link to those episodes in the in the information for for this one too, and I can send you the same so you can do the same if you want. Thank you. So I think you were the first person that reached out to me about having this discussion. Why did you feel called to have this conversation together?

Ivy:
Well, because, as so much of my work is inspired by my lived experience, right? Like I got into this work because of my lived experience, with my body, with my health, with my identity, and that feeds a lot of my work. It shapes a lot of my work. So to me, it’s only natural that as I begin to age and go through the different stages of life, that this will become more a part of the conversation, right? So I always like to take my community and clients along with me on my body journey, and this is a way to do that. And so I had, I know that we’ve been at this work for a long time, a long time now, and what I was kind of reminded of was back, I think, when we were both around 40 years old. So I think that’s when you were, um, carrying your son, and we had a conversation then about turning 40, and kind of like what that looked like. And it kind of stuck in my head that we were entering this stage of life, right, of doing this sort of work. So coming into, you know, for me, I’m now 46 sometimes I have to remember what 4546 I’m gonna need you. So coming into this new age, it’s like, I think it’s been coming up for me with my clients, it’s been coming up in my community spaces. So it’s like, oh, somebody reach out to summer and see if she’d be interested in having the conversation.

Summer:
Yeah, I echo what you have said in terms of my own personal experience. So I’m 46 as well, and and just noticing some of the old thought patterns pop up again when I notice certain changes, or, yeah, just like if I see myself, for example, in a photo, or compare myself to other people, and it’s just, it’s been interesting because I felt fairly, I felt, you know, very secure, I would say, in my in with my relationship with my body, because I’d done so much work a long time ago on it, and continued to build on that over the years. And so it’s been interesting to sort of be like, oh, wait a minute, this is, you know, just noticing more, you know, fears or thoughts or stresses that that perhaps I hadn’t experienced in a while. And so I know that, much like you, the clients I work with are experiencing similar things and coming to me saying, like, I My body’s changed for no reason. It’s really stressing me out. I don’t know what’s going to happen to my body. I’m worried about my health and so new challenges that feel a little more outside of our control, I think, than than perhaps they did when we were in a different age group,

Ivy:
yeah, yeah, I agree. So much resonance in that, like, you know, for me, a big part of my body image challenges was around size inclusion, right? Like embracing my size, and then also living with chronic illness, like those things were my topics, you know, sort of for for again, like over a decade. So when you work at something for over a decade, you know, you you gather tools, like you said, you become better at it, you find more peace with it, and then you’re sort of like, okay, I think we’re doing good here, and then here comes the 40s. It starts. It’s like, wait, you know, I remember, I think it was in my 30s, like probably 10 a few years ago, 15 years ago, something like that that I wrote on my old site, my blog about. Body changes, and how when our body changes, it can feel like you’re living in this unfamiliar home, right? Like when you move to a new home, it’s sort of like, I don’t know this space. It doesn’t feel comfortable for me, it doesn’t feel welcoming to me. And so aging started to feel like that. It was sort of like, Wait, what is happening? You know, I had figured out how to navigate the world in a larger body. I figured out accessibility as a larger person, as a chronically ill person. I figured out, like, the rhythm of how to kind of get life to work for me. And now it’s something completely new happening. You’re kind of like a master at some things, but now you’re starting out again on another body relationship issue?

Summer:
Yes, and I noticed the fear mongering and the way that aging is there’s a lot of people that make a lot of money off of anti aging messaging, right? And so therefore they utilize a lot of fear mongering in order to capitalize off of our insecurities. And so I noticed that just being targeted, like advertisements being targeted towards me, or just I’m just more aware of that that focus on on how you need to do these things to to make sure that you’re healthy and and to me, it’s it very much, is entrenched in diet culture. And I’m not saying that some of the things that they’re suggesting are necessarily harmful, but I think that when your frame of mind is is more of this, like, Oh my God, what’s happening to my body, what’s happening to my appearance, then you’re more likely to engage in disordered behaviors or double down on them as a result of that kind of, like, shame and anxiety that you’re feeling. And so what I’ve noticed is this whole other, like, layer of messaging that comes in when you’re in this age group of like, oh my god, you need to do, you know? You need to make sure that you’re doing these eight things or eating these foods and and, like, here’s all the treatments you can do on your face to make sure you don’t look older. And it’s like, it’s this whole other cloud that sort of comes in, right? And I think a lot of people are, if they haven’t done the work that, like we’ve done going into it, I think they’re just that much more vulnerable and that much more impacted by by that messaging, and it makes so that really kind of fires me up to want to fight back against it. Because, much like the messaging around around weight and, you know, gender and everything else, like and beauty standards, the ageism piece, like, really, you know, makes me very frustrated, and because I see the harm that it does to people, and I see how it’s like, just this never ending cycle for people of feeling like there’s something wrong with them because they have to live up to to these standards, and therefore engage in maybe some habits and behaviors that are not necessarily helpful for them in order to try to, like, ward off aging and health problems.

Ivy:
What I’ve noticed also is that when you were talking about beauty standards and things like that, that I think that a lot of people don’t realize how ageism is still a form of buying into beauty standards, right? Like people are very aware of, you know, it’s become very, very much a trend to talk about fat phobia, you know, to talk about, you know, size, anti diet like, I think that’s become more and more mainstream. People kind of get that and understand that, but I do see in conversations of the same people who sometimes claim to be, you know, size inclusive or body affirming, that I’ll see them making statements about that that could be considered forms of ageism, right? Or clinging on to, you know, I still look young, and things like that. And it’s sort of like, oh, I don’t think we’re understanding how this is a part of body standards, and this is a part of beauty standards. Or people who will say, Oh, you know, I’m such and such age, and I can still do X, Y and Z. How? You know, that is a form of ableism mixed in with ageism, right? I don’t think that that is is understood, and maybe we haven’t talked about it enough. You know, in the body liberation spaces, I do know we talk a lot about size, we talk a lot about dieting, but there’s a lot of other things we don’t talk about, and I don’t think that people are getting that message as clearly.

Summer:
I would 100% agree with that, and something that it makes me curious about is, what are the messages that you heard about aging like when you were growing up, for example, what did you hear like from your parents or from, you know, the people in your community that kind of were role models to you? I’m curious to know what your experience was with that.

Ivy:
I feel like the message, this messaging, is really culturally specific, is that, like black people don’t a. Age, right? Oh, we gotta have a whole conversation like, Oh, we don’t age. We don’t wrinkle, because, you know, the melanin is there, and so there’s all these really, really, really deep expectations of the if you’re a black person, you’re not supposed to look your age, right? Because that’s something that is attributed to the magic of blackness. So if you’re a person who that is not true for you, you can, you know, start to feel disconnection from your body, or maybe feel less confident or less valuable. And I think what you were speaking about earlier is that it does make you more likely right to participate in some of the disordered behaviors, or maybe those body war type things where it’s like, Okay, I’m gonna fight my body because this is what my body’s supposed to be. But it’s not so you’re feeling the shame, you’re feeling the judgment, you’re feeling the frustration of, why are people in my culture and in my community having this experience, but I’m not having that experience. I think that’s one of the main things in my culture and in growing up that I heard and I had also around aging. My grandmother was 102 when she passed, when she transitioned, so there was a lot of conversation around, you know, she was mobile and independent and those things well into like 99 in her late 90s. So there was a lot of programming, right, and conversation around, you know, we’re still strong, we’re still mobile, we’re still these things very late in life. And I think that hearing those things right, and being a person who has chronic illness, who has, you know, some mobility things going on, who has, who went through limited strength issues over the past few years, it’s sort of like, well, there’s this expectation that you’re supposed to be strong and mobile, and this because you’re young, you’re not old, you need to be vibrant, you need to be flourishing, and you’re not measuring up to those things. So I think that those are two of the maybe strongest messages that I heard around aging that impacted my relationship with my body.

Summer:
Now I appreciate you sharing that. And I think the, you know, talking about, like having to be, you know, strong and and and mobile, and that’s one of the things that I noticed, too, about some of the aging content that I follow, is that the ones that are sort of celebrated are the people who are, you know, like 80 years old and like deadlifting 200 pounds or something like that, you know what I mean. And it’s like, that’s great, good for them, but it’s like, that doesn’t need to define your worth as your age. And I think that it is really rooted in ableism. And like you said, like, I think people are missing that. And it’s, I mean, I’m not saying that we can’t celebrate those things, but I think that we also need to still be okay with not having our worthiness attached to our abilities and our health as we as we get older, because sometimes that’s just not in our control at all. And I think that it can, it can definitely create some beliefs around who you should be as you age. And of course, I’m sure most of us would want to be able to, you know, be strong like your grandma and everything else, but it’s just not that’s like, it’s not possible for a lot of a lot of people, for most people, I think,

Ivy:
what about you? What were your messages that you heard?

Summer:
Yeah, I think for me, it was very much like, oh my god, I’m looking older. Oh my god, summer. Look at this. And then like, sorry. I know people are listening to this, but my mom would literally take her face and, like, pull her skin back and be like, be like, I don’t want to get rid of me. So it was very it was it was positioned. And this is not default my mother at all. She’s just, you know, she’s just a participant in these systems, like she’s a product of those systems. But it was really enforced in me that it was like, it was like, your value, it goes down as you age. And beauty is really important. And aging does not make you beautiful. And so that’s been really interesting for me to sort of think about the messages that I share, just in, like, offside and not offside, but just like, offhanded comments when my son is around, but just kind of like, I have to be careful that I’m not saying something like, Oh, I’m feeling so old today, or something. You know what I mean? Like, or, Oh God, I look old in this photo. You know what I mean? Or like, what happened to me? Even though sometimes I would say those things, like, just between my husband and I just will be looking at it, because we’ve been together for 20 years. So just looking at a photo and being like, oh my god, what happened to us? No, but so saying it more in general. US, but like realizing that, even in just like, I don’t want him internalizing that there’s something wrong with with aging, because I certainly did, as a result of all the messaging that I heard, and then continue to hear from family members so and then, obviously, I think it’s just much more heavily reinforced in our culture now, just you know, when you you don’t see people who are over 40 on TV unless they’ve had, for the most part, I would say, like 80% of the time, unless they’ve had, you know, significant work done. And so I think that that’s, you know, that just is, like a very we internalize that as then, therefore thinking that like we need to also thwart that aging process?

Ivy:
Yeah, I think that there’s a need to bring you know we talk about body diversity, we need to weave that into a conversation around aging, right? Like not everybody is going to age the same way. There’s diversity when it comes to aging, not everyone’s experience is the same. And again, I feel like that’s a conversation we have in mainstream around certain sections when we talk about bodies, right? Like, maybe size, gender expression, things like that. But let’s we body diversity, you know, and bio individuality, right? Like we all have different biological makeup as well, so we’re not going to have the same experience. And it doesn’t mean that you’re broken, it doesn’t mean that you’re not measuring up, it just means that you’re different. You know, I also see a lot of content around this obsession with people not looking different, right the side by side, of like, here’s this person in their 20s, here’s this person in their 50s, they look the same. It’s sort of like, are not supposed to look the same. If you naturally look the same. That’s fine, right? But there’s this really deep obsession with not changing, right? And everyone’s still looking young. And it’s sort of like, you know, even fruit ages over sometime, you know, like flowers, trees, the art, like, it’s just the natural part of life. And we have so much resistance to that in our culture now that even, which I’m sure we’ll get, maybe we’ll get into later. But even you know, folks in their teens and 20s are using anti aging things on their skin because they have this deep fear around that, or they’re trying to prohibit aging from happening.

Summer:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, when you think about what their parents are, potentially, and I’m not putting blame on parents, but just the whole culture has shifted, right? Like, when I was growing up, there wasn’t Botox, there wasn’t fillers, there wasn’t, like, the only thing you could do was, like, a face lift. So nowadays, I think that young kids, there’s, there’s probably a high percentage of them that have parents that are doing, you know, Botox and fillers and stuff. And I don’t, and I don’t judge those people, but if you’re a child and that’s what you’re seeing, then, like, I think it makes sense that you would probably internalize that. Like, it’s, it’s well documented that children internalize dieting behaviors and fat talk and things like that from their parents. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be the same with anti aging behaviors and anti aging discussions. And so I think that it’s like, and again, I don’t want to blame the parents, because it’s deaf. Because it’s definitely, it’s a systemic issue. However, I do think that like that probably is also contributing to that obsession, along with social media and like influencers who profit off of, you know, their Botox discount codes and things like that, and selling all these products at Sephora and whatnot. But it is, it is alarming to me to to witness that too, because when I was in my 20s, I think I maybe washed my face like anything. And so it’s really changed. Now it’s really changed.

Ivy:
Yeah, the industries, like I used to say years ago, that, you know, in talking about dieting, that the industries make you feel bad about yourself so they can sell you shit, right? And so that’s, it’s the same thing when it comes to aging. There is this really big push and marketing on skincare. It is, you know, I feel like some of the marketing, while that was into dieting, went into skincare, but now it’s back to dieting. But anyway, you know, on Tiktok, things like that, like teens, you know, adolescents are doing these heavy skincare routines, and I’m like, you still have baby skin, you know, like your skin is still not even fully developed, and you’re putting so many products and things like that. And like you said, it’s not about judging those people or they’re having this like, you know, hierarchy of like, Oh, I’m better than them, or anything like that. It’s just really, as a person who’s been in this work for so long, it’s concerning because we put some. Much energy into trying to ensure that the next generation doesn’t feel this obligation to be defined by how they look, and it seems like now it’s even more defined by how they look. It’s not just their size anymore. Now it’s whether or not they have the glass skin effect, which is like the new thing. Everybody needs to have glass skin, where it looks, you know, shiny and perfect and has no blemishes. And when you’re in your teens, that’s kind of natural, because you’re going through, you know, a shift in hormones and things like that. And then we experience it again when we go through menopause, all over again. So, you know, the body is always doing things and all these different phases of life. And it’s like, I believe we need to have more conversations like this about, how do we normalize, right, or become more embracing of the fact that the body’s just changing and shifting and all kind of shit is happening, and it’s going to show up in different ways.

Summer:
Yeah, and I think that’s a good segue to one of the things we wanted to talk about, which is the positive side of aging, like the, you know, I think that one of the discussions that we had before we recorded, this is how a lot of the times the conversations are centered around, like, here’s the bad things that are gonna happen to you, and therefore, here are the things you need to do to avoid changing. And one of the things that we had sort of just openly discussed together was just the positive, like the great things, and how it’s really important that we focus discussions around what those positive things are. Did you want to share some of the things that you’ve really embraced or enjoyed about the aging process.

Ivy:
For me, I just have zero F’s to give. That’s the I remember people saying this when I was younger, like, oh, you know when a woman gets into her 40s, or whatever, and so, like, I don’t know, but it’s like, oh, no, this is, this really is a thing like, I decided somewhere in the 2020s I think going through the pandemic had a big impact on this, but it was about comfort. I was like, I threw away, like, or gave away, actually, like, three bags of heels, because I was like, I’m done. This is it. I’m not I’m not doing it. I’m gonna wear shoes that are comfortable. I’m gonna make them go with my outfit. I’m gonna be eclectic about it, but I’m done with that. And I was a heels girl, and I nothing wrong with heels. Heels are beautiful. A lot of my money in my life went to heels shoes, but, you know, from like, teens, 20s, 30s, but then I was just like, I don’t want to be uncomfortable, like, I want to wear shoes that are comfortable clothes. I want to wear fabrics that are comfortable on my skin. You know, when it comes to the cut of clothing, like I just want to be not things that are like trying to snatch me and all these other things, like, Can I wear this all day or for a few hours or whatever and not feel uncomfortable. And it’s to me, it’s beautiful, because it is a way of listening to my body, right? Like, do these fabrics make me uncomfortable? I will never wear them again, you know? Um, does this cut make my body feel constricted, and does it leave marks when I take this thing off or whatever, just listening to my body more and then honoring it by being like, yeah, okay, I’m not gonna wear that anymore. You’re not gonna have to go through that again, you know?

Summer:
Yeah, absolutely. I echo a lot of what you said. I love not having to be cool any. Like not caring about being cool anymore, and not caring about like being desirable to the male gaze like I don’t I do. I give two shits about like, I do not care at all. And so part of me wonders is, like, do I like I love, sort of embracing this notion that, like my, you know, my beauty is no longer relevant to who I am as a person. And just like, again, like that doesn’t mean that, like, I don’t care about how I look, because, like anyone can see me, I clearly dye my hair, like I’m wearing makeup for this conversation, you know, like I have a cute top on, but it’s from this place of like, what feels good for me and like, how do I want to express myself instead of like, how do I want other people to perceive me? And how do I want other people to think of me? Or, do I, you know, how am I? How am I trying to shape myself so that I’m, you know, making myself smaller, or, yeah, like, or that I’m trying to make myself, like, quote, unquote, more, like, attractive, so to speak. And so, so, yeah, so I really love that. It’s just not caring, like you said. And then comfort as well for me is, is really, really huge, like, just I put on a pair of pants yesterday. They were just just a tiny bit tight around the waist. And so I was like, forget it. They’re going in the donation pile, like corn heels in years either, because I got bunions. And I was like, I don’t want to get bunions, so I stopped wearing them. But, but yeah, just really. And I think it is just like prioritizing that level of just what feels good on me, and yeah, and just feeling a lot more secure and like in like, who I am as a person I think, and when I think back to who I was, even, even just, you know, like 15 years ago, 10 years ago, like, I do think that I’ve, you know, emotionally evolved and matured and in a good way. And I think that’s just come from like that, that additional life experience and perspective and and so, and just doing my own like inner work for sure, and having different life experiences that have shaped that too. And so I do really think that that’s a that’s a very positive side of it too. Yay.

Ivy:
It’s the it’s something to look forward to. And I feel like if more people could hear that and embrace that, it can actually be a liberating experience. I echo what you say about like, self expression. That’s what it’s all based in. For me before it was very much based in external messaging, right? And trying to measure up to that, and people pleasing and whatever it was, like you said, trying to be cool, trying to be desirable. But now it’s, you know, self expression. So it whatever I choose to wear or not wear. It’s about how I’m feeling on the inside, like how I’m feeling nudged for the day, like I might feel super Femme and be like, oh, I want to put on, you know, this flowy maxi dress and whatever that has flowers, and then the next day it’s like, oh, I’m feeling, you know, or like, I want to wear more masculine wear, you know. It’s just like, it depends on what I’m feeling like. And for me as a person who’s a former makeup artist like I actually went through evolution with that too, because for a long time, makeup for me was about meeting beauty standards and desirability and all of that. And then I took time away from it for several years, and then I came back and redefined it. And it’s very much a form of self expression. It’s like, some days I’m like, oh, I want this super colorful eyeshadow thing going on. And, you know, I feel like, you know, doing all this creative stuff. And then the other day, it’s like, I don’t want to do any at all. It’s just having that freedom, right? Or just like a light look, or whatever. It just depends on how I’m feeling. And I think there’s so much freedom and peace at being able to do that, like flip flops, if I want to do flip flops, sneakers, if I want to do sneakers, you know, whatever you get to decide,

Summer:
yeah, it’s really great. It’s amazing. I love that. I love that aspect of it, too. And I feel like I enjoy shopping more as a result. I don’t do a ton of shopping because I work from home. But like, just like, you know, it makes it more fun when you’re when you’re like, What do I like and like, what’s going to feel comfortable instead of what do I think I should be wearing? Yeah, I saw this post, and I think I didn’t even click on it because it was so enraging, but it was like 10 things to avoid wearing in your 40s or 50s, I can’t remember it said, so that you’re not unattractive to manners. Like, it was something along those, like, 10 things to wear to avoid wearing, so that you’re like, yeah, like, basically saying, like you’re and I was just like, What is this crap? And like, are people actually reading this and thinking like, this is what I should be doing, because I’m trying to be, you know, this is what a guy wants. Like, give me a break. Made me so upset. Anyways, I might have screen captured it. I might have screen captured that article. I gotta go back and check

Ivy:
something like about being able to choose things based on just what feels like me, right, and not like what’s on trend. I don’t really care. I also don’t care if it’s like, you’re 46 and you shouldn’t be wearing that, whatever spectrum that’s on, right? Like I just my husband gifted me a new hair like Converse maybe a year or so ago, and it’s like, I love them, like, I don’t care that I’m 46 and people think maybe it’s too old to be wearing that I don’t know. People do or don’t, right? Or it’s too short, or it makes you look too old, or it’s just like, if it feels like me and it feels good for the day, I don’t really care if it’s on trend or not. Like, yeah,

Summer:
there’s so much freedom in that I absolutely agree with you. Okay, so we are going to wrap this conversation up. Thank you for being a part of it. We’re going to start a new conversation, and we’re going to talk about what it’s like to maybe look a little bit more like your parents as you age, how we’ve navigated some of these changes, and. And navigating ableism and the fear of losing abilities. So stay tuned for that next conversation. Thank you for being here. It’s going to be exciting. I hope you enjoyed the first part of our conversation. You can find the links mentioned at summer Inn and in.com forward slash, 323, you can also learn more about Ivy by going to Ivy felicia.com she has a free guide on her website too, and we are back with part two in a couple of weeks. I hope that you will tune in. Thank you so much for being here today. Rock on.

I’m Summer innan, and I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer innan, and if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts, search, eat the rules and subscribe, rate and review this show. I would be so grateful until next time, rock on you.