We also talk about her perspective that “all foods fit.”

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Summer:
This episode of eat the rules is brought to you by you on fire.

You on fire is the online group coaching program that I run that gives you a step by step way of building up your self worth beyond your appearance with personalized coaching from me, incredible community support and lifetime access to the program so that you can get free from body shame and live life on your own terms. Get details on what’s included and sign up for the next cycle at summer innanen.com forward slash you on fire. I’d love to have you in that group. This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image self worth, anti dieting and intersectional feminism. I am your host, summer innanen, a professionally trained coach specializing in body image self worth and confidence, and the best selling author of body image remix. If you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale, then you have come to the right place. Welcome to the show.

This is episode 308, and I’m joined by Shana Spence, who has been on the show before. She’s a registered dietitian nutritionist and author of the new book, live nourished, make peace with food, banish body shame and reclaim joy. We’re talking about why the BMI is bullshit. Weather processed foods are really bad for us. And her perspective that all foods fit. You can find the links mentioned at summer innanen.com forward slash 308.

Before we begin, I want to give a shout out to Mama anderag, who left this review, wow. I found this podcast just when I needed it the most. I struggled daily with body image issues and feeling inadequate because of my physical appearance. Every single episode gets me one inch closer to body acceptance, and I’m so thankful I found this podcast summer. You are amazing. Keep standing up for us, women who are struggling to stand up for ourselves. You’re making an impact. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that review. So very generous and kind of you. You can leave a review by going to Apple podcast. Search for eat the rules, click ratings and reviews and click to leave a review.

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super excited to have Shauna back on the show again talking about her new book, live nourished, which is another amazing resource to add to your repertoire. Shauna is a registered dietitian nutritionist based in Brooklyn, New York. She currently works in public health for the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, doing community nutrition lessons, and also owns her own company, the nutrition team. She describes herself as an all foods fit dietitian, and creates a platform for open discussion on nutrition and wellness topics that are inclusive, non diet and weight neutral, all with an intersectionality of social justice. Her new book, live nourished, make peace with food, banish body shame and reclaim joy is out now. Let’s get started with the show. Hi. Shana, welcome back to the show.

Shana:
Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Summer:
I’m super excited to have you here and talk all about your your new book, and all the work that you do as a dietitian. I know you’ve been on the show before, and we kind of talked about just like, how you how you got into this work and and all that stuff, but like, what prompted you to write a book, what made you want to put it into, put all that effort into writing?

Shana:
Yeah, definitely. I think that there was sort of a narrative that was missing within nutrition books in general, but definitely the non diet space. You know, I think that it’s so important to talk about a healthy relationship with food and how to get to that point. But I think that sometimes the narrative of access and also different demographics. Ethics was missing, and that was a whole reason for me wanting to sort of write from that perspective. You know, in my social media posts and my articles, I talk a lot about the social determinants of health and all those different types of intersections when we’re talking about nutrition. So I I thought it was just important to have a book that we could also read, read about, you know, all that information. So I was really excited to write about it,

Summer:
yeah, and to give it to all the people that constantly probably come into your comment section and be like, exactly, here’s my book, and you can now read about it.

Shana:
Exactly.

Summer:
So one of the things like you talked about, like, Okay, you are providing more of an intersectional lens on nutrition and well, like wellness, so to speak. And but one of the things you mentioned in your book is you say the like most health professionals. School taught me all about how to stigmatize. What do you mean by what was your experience like? What do you what do you mean by that? Because I feel like I maybe had sort of a similar experiences.

Shana:
Sure, yeah. I always say, you know, I feel like I got my degree in diet culture. And, you know, we have the classes of bias and, like, fat phobia, you know, like all of those things, because in the health field, we’re given textbooks and we’re told, okay, we have to memorize all of these numbers. And some of those numbers include, you know, how folks in larger bodies are being looked upon as far as their health where, you know, and there’s sort of a bias, when we think about it, right? We’re taught, okay, if they’re larger, they must be unhealthy. I mean, same thing can be said about different demographics. If we look at different races, or, you know, sexual orientations, gender, we’re given bias where, you know, like, I remember this one textbook. My friend went to nursing school, and I didn’t have this textbook, but I remember her showing it to me how, in the book, there was different races and there was, like, these stigmas. This was, like, a textbook for health professionals, okay? And it was, you know, how African Americans or blacks can feel more pain, or how, like Latinos can feel like a lot of their trauma is due to, like, religious reasons, okay, like all of these stigmas and biases that we learn in school and then we take with us in the clinical fields, or I should say, the health field. So quite honestly, it takes a bit of undoing to learn that. And, you know, there’s so many biases, and, you know, I think it’s uncomfortable to realize that we all have them, and it’s just our job to sort of undo them, realize we have them, and try to work backwards, you know, because I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t have any. I mean, I went to school for this, so I learned it from somewhere, you know, so it’s unfortunate, but yeah, yeah, 100%

Summer:
Yeah. And I had, I had a similar experience in when I went to nutrition school, it was like a holistic nutrition, so different than dietetics, but same kind of thing is just and never. And I, like, I don’t know about yours, I’m hoping yours was better, but not once were we taught how to screen for eating disorders, like, or disorder behavior, yeah, which is like, like, what? Exactly?

Shana:
So problematic. Yeah, so problematic. I think that it was, maybe, I don’t even think it was a chapter in a textbook, or maybe we skipped over that chapter, because everything I learned about eating disorders was partly in my internship, but on my own, and which is a problem. They’re very prevalent, so that’s a huge problem. Unfortunately, yeah,

Summer:
especially when your job is to help people eat, like to figure out food or whatever, and you’re not screening, you’re not learning how to screen for those. And I think that’s really important for people listening, to understand that if they have had these experiences before, where they’ve been, you know, stigmatized by someone in, like, the health profession, it’s because, like, oftentimes, a, they’re not getting any training on on bias, and B, they might not even have any training on how to screen for eating disorders.

Shana:
It’s true, because when you think about it, I I mean, honestly, now that I now that you brought that up, I’m really trying to remember any sort of course I had in school, and I can’t think of any. Like, I really don’t think we, we covered that in school. Everything was on my own. Yeah? So that’s that’s unfortunate,

Summer:
yeah, I know. And honestly, like, my mind’s just sort of processing it as I’m talking to you as well, because I’m like, wow, how did we not learn that? Like we’re going out, and our job is to help people, yeah, with their food,

Shana:
exactly, exactly. Really.

Summer:
So yeah, to your point, like, obviously, you’ve done a lot of work to undo any of that, any of that bias and and really take that intersectional lens. And so one of the things that you talk about quite often is is, like, sort of getting rid of the BMI, or getting the way, like changing the way we talk about health, but really divesting that from the BMI. So we’ve talked about the BMI on this podcast, like probably two or three years ago, but I feel like it’s worth bringing up again, because oftentimes people forget, or they don’t go back and listen to episodes from that long ago. So yeah, can you just talk a little bit about the BMI and why it’s such an unreliable health measure?

Shana:
Yeah, it’s, it’s so it’s really interesting, because when we think about how, or, like, where so much of our focus is now on health, like, where it stemmed from. Because the founder, if we go way back in time, right? Like the founder of BMI was this mathematician, this astronomer, and he was also very much into eugenics. And I think that sometimes, when we’re talking about, you know, looking at these cutoff, I guess, numbers, right, when we’re looking at someone’s, you know, unfortunately, I’m going to use the O words here, like overweight, obese. You know, when we’re looking at those things from the BMI, we have to remember that it was founded by someone whose goal was to formulate the perfect man. And I’m not making that turn up like that. Was literally what he was trying to do, he was trying to find the ideal measurements for the perfect man. And the perfect man, in his opinion, it’s not mine. In his opinion, was thin, you know, and white and you know, women were not included. People with disabilities were not included. Of course, people of color were definitely not included. So now we’re using the same formula. Now it’s what 2024 and so we have to think to ourselves, maybe we should be relooking at some things here. You know, to be using this formula. And even though you’re going to have people who will say, Well, how else will we determine health? I mean, honestly, there, there are so many problematic things wrong with that statement, because when we’re using that as an excuse, well, I want to see how healthy someone is, it’s really saying, Well, I don’t care that it’s being used to discriminate. I don’t care that it’s being used in ways that it shouldn’t be. I just, you know, we just need to concentrate on health. And it’s like we can do so many other things. Then, you know, look at, then follow this BMI system, because BMI is used to discriminate. A lot of insurance companies use it to discriminate, as well as even we just talked about eating disorders. Many times, certain eating disorder clinics have cut offs as far as what your BMI is in order to seek treatment. So all of these things are problematic. And so I know I’m going on a rampage here, because I have so many thoughts on it, but it’s just, you know, it’s when you think about what it was formulated for and how we’re still using it. I think it’s a problem. I’ll just say that,

Summer:
yeah, yeah, totally, 100% and so, like, what? And I don’t know if you have this answer, but I guess, like, what for as someone who listening, who’s like, okay, and so, how do I measure health?

Shana:
Right, right? Yeah.

Summer:
So how would you answer that?

Shana:
Yeah, I think that there are so many things we can do. First of all, we can actually look at the individual as a person, rather than just looking at numbers, right? Like oftentimes, when you go to the doctor, sometimes, you know, and this is not a dig at doctors, okay at all, but sometimes they’re just looking at okay. They take your height, they take your weight, and they formulate the BMI, and then they just tell you, okay, like, try to be healthier, but they don’t really ask you about yourself. You know? They don’t ask if you’re eating, they don’t ask what your stress level is. They don’t ask if you’re sleeping, all of these things, which are actual health behaviors. So for looking at health, my suggestion is to always think about, well, what is the person’s lifestyle? What are they doing? What are they actually doing? Because oftentimes, or many times, I should say, you know, bodies aren’t business cards, right? Like we’re looking at someone in a larger body and just assuming that they’re not eating a healthful diet or nutrient dense foods. And that’s not true. Or we’re assuming that just because someone is thin, that they are eating these foods, and that might not be true. So actually looking at what this person is doing versus just looking at their body. And I think that’s the problem. When we’re thinking about health in general, we’re looking at what someone looks like instead of what someone is actually doing, like the actual health behaviors. So I think. Those, I think that’s a major distinction,

Summer:
yeah, and that’s where the bias comes in, right? Because, if, even just like, subconsciously, if you’ve been conditioned, which we all have, we’ve all been brainwashed to think, okay, health equals weight, then like that is going on, whether you kind of are aware of that or not. For most people, unless they’ve, like, really worked hard to kind of undo that bias and bring that awareness forward for themselves. And I think that’s the difficult part for people and and that’s why so many people have such horrible experiences going to the doctor or afraid to even go to the doctor, because exactly they’re just immediately the assumptions are just immediately made about them.

Shana:
Exactly, yeah.

Summer:
So along that line, like, I think that we make a lot of assumptions about processed foods, you know, and one of the things that you talk about quite a bit, like on your social media as well as in the book, is that processed foods, like convenience foods, like they they can play a role in our life. They’re not this, like, evil thing. So I want to talk to you a little bit about processed foods. But first, what is a processed food like? I know there’s different class. I believe there’s different you had different classifications that you listed out in your book, and you describe them. Do you mind just like, kind of speaking to that a bit so people understand, like, what is what do you define as a processed food?

Shana:
Yeah, I think that sometimes we we just say the word processed and it sounds very scary because it sounds like something that came out of a machine, and sometimes it has, you know, but that doesn’t mean that it’s scary, nor are all processed foods the same. So most of the time when we’re talking about different classifications, we’re looking at something called the Nova System. And yes, it has its you know, some people are for it, some people are against Nova, you know? And I get it, but that’s what most of us use, because we’ll have minimal, minimally processed foods, right? Like, say, if you are getting like, apples at the grocery store, you know those are still processed right, because they had to be transported from the farm to the grocery store, so those still require some processing in order to keep them fresh. Right. Same thing with like a bag of carrots, yes, they’re fresh foods. And, you know, these foods are fine, but these are still processed, right? There’s still some processing that is involved. And we also have, of course, the ultra processed foods that many of us think of, which are, you know, potato chips, soda, you know, those are definitely Ultra processed foods. But what we have to remember is, in the definition, ultra processed, is really just foods that don’t have their same kind of look, in layman’s terms, right? The same sort of look, or even ingredients as their original state. So what that means is a food that’s been broken down and maybe something has been added to it. And that sounds scary, but it shouldn’t be right, because if we think of something like, say, if you’re in a hospital, you know, unfortunately, we sometimes require some supplemental nutrition if you go into a nursing home, right? Sometimes the only thing that some folks might be able to eat or to consume are those, like supplemental drinks, right? Like ensure, Lucerna, I’m trying to think of all of them, boost, right? Those are all Ultra processed, you know, but they’re still good for those, for those folks, right? Because we want them to have something Ultra processed foods might also be if you’re vegan and you want some sort of meat alternative, you’re going to consume, like, what is the name of that brand? Oh, Beyond Meat, I think, or, like, impossible, those types of brands, those are ultra processed, but, you know, and some, and there’s a lot of controversy about those as well. However, they’re still lower in, like, saturated fat. They’re still, they still have the vitamins and minerals that mimic meats. So that would be good for a vegan or vegetarian or, you know, whoever wants to consume them. So I think sometimes my goal is not to have people just scared of the word processed, but actually looking at the food in front of them. You know, just because it’s ultra processed doesn’t mean it has the same nutritional value as bag of chips, like a bag of chips and, you know, a beyond meat, beef burger, whatever you want to call it, aren’t the same foods. So I just want people to realize that there’s a distinction here, and it’s okay,

Summer:
yeah, yeah. And I think that’s where it gets confusing for people, too, though, right? Is that like, because there would those two things be, like, those two things would be sort of classified together, right? And it’s like, yeah, yeah. But even the things that are like, for example, chips

Shana:
and those aren’t bad foods, yeah,

Summer:
yeah, exactly. But those are the ones that people are saying, like, Okay, we. Need, we need, like, tobacco style warnings on those. Like, that’s, that’s something that I’ve seen out there. Like, what do you think of? What do you think about that?

Shana:
It’s so weird to me, because I think that, you know, and here in the States especially, I’m sure it’s true of a few other countries, but we get compared to Europe quite a bit. And I just feel like when we’re compared to other countries, like in Europe or wherever, it’s like comparing apples to oranges, right? Because we’re told we eat so many things like the, you know, the first thing people think of are the chips or the soda, things like that. Every country has that right. And so then it’s like, well, why does, why do? Why does America have more of these processed foods? And I always invite people to really dig deeper, because we have to think why that is. You know what? I mean, we’re not like I said, it’s comparing apples to oranges, because we don’t have the same work life balance that these other countries have. We don’t have the same environments that these other countries have. And I think we fail to realize that right like, you know, I remember going to, it was Ecuador, even, and I remember coming back in the afternoon from a really long hike, and all I wanted was some ice cream, right? And I remember walking through town, walking through town, every single store was closed. And after a while, I was like, What is going you know, like, being the dumb American I was, I was just like, what is happening? Like, why are these stores open? And then finally, someone said to me, it’s lunchtime, like we’re not open, like we’re taking a break. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, people do that, right? And so, so my point is that here in the States, we don’t do that. Like, when you think of lunch, you think of half an hour, and you’re usually working at your desk, so you’re going to go for something that is quick and convenient, right? So, yes, you’re going to go for that bagged pre bagged salad, right? Or that frozen meal. Because we don’t get the luxury of getting, you know, time off, you know? And, and I had to stop myself when I was I remember walking around like, oh my gosh, this is actually what it’s supposed to be like. And here I am, like, you know, wanting ice cream when these people are, you know, on lunch. But that’s my point. Is that, you know, we we often compare ourselves to countries like that, and we don’t have the same work life balance. We don’t have the same structure, the same social connections or the same structure. So, you know, we can’t really compare ourselves. So yes, we we have a lot of processed foods, but we also have to think of why we have a lot of processed foods here. And, you know, like, like we mentioned before, chips aren’t bad. Every country has them. If you walk around the grocery like, the first thing I do when I travel is work, walk around through the grocery stores, every country has potato chips. Okay? Like, let’s not act like it’s a new thing here. But it’s you know, that doesn’t make it a bad food, you know, just makes it a fun, celebratory food. I’m not saying to eat it 24/7, I’m just saying it doesn’t make it a bad food. Okay, let’s just clarify that too.

Summer:
Yeah, I love that you brought up that comparison to other countries, because I was actually in Europe in a couple months ago for, like a family thing, and yeah, and so what I noticed is that they have a so, like, their systems are so much better, of course, like education, health care,

Shana:
oh, health care is like number one for me, yeah, for sure, yeah,

Summer:
yeah. And then even, like, transit, so being able to get somewhere a lot more efficiently, whether that be public transit or or by like, bike lanes, for example, like, and so yeah, you think about and then, like, the number of weeks of vacation, like all the things that you’re mentioning, and it’s like, yeah, it’s and the food, yeah, the food’s the same. Pretty much, like, where I went, it was the same. And so I think, to your point, it’s like, yeah, it’s not the foods, it’s capitalism. It’s Like health care, it’s all of these other things, yeah, yeah,

Shana:
that stress.

Summer:
Like, yeah, yeah, we don’t look after and Canada’s maybe a little better. We have healthcare, but like, the systems aren’t set up to, like, like, give people the best life and look after them really, you know? And so, yeah, I’m actually really glad you brought that up, because that was on my mind a couple months ago when I was there and I was like, wow, like, this is really this is the difference. It’s the lifestyle,

Shana:
and it is really nice. Yeah, don’t get me wrong. Like, it is really nice, but I just feel like we, well, this is another podcast topic. We could have it if we tried, but, you know, we don’t right now, so we just. Have to kind of work with what we have.

Summer:
Yeah. But yeah, you know, I remember one place we went, it was the law that you had to have a green space every 300 meters. And so you think about, like, I know in the book, you talk about food apartheid, like that being the like, a real issue that instead, we blame processed foods, instead of actually looking at some of these other, these other issues that are actually a lot more important in terms of improving people’s well being,

Shana:
exactly.

Summer:
So I want to talk about because your book is called Live nourished. And so I’d love to talk a little bit about that nourishment piece. You talk about intuitive eating in the book, and you talk about, like, taking useful pieces from it and maybe changing and maybe some of the things that you would change, like, what do you feel is the most it’s a two part question. But like, what do you feel is the most useful? And then second to that, like, what do you what would, what would you change about it?

Shana:
I think, Oh, well, one Intuitive Eating is, of course, such a great concept. And I just noticed that sometimes, when I was working with clients, you know, counseling, I think that there was because they were coming from a dieting place or dieting realm, it was confusing to see, like the 10 principles of intuitive eating, and not correlate that to a diet. So I think in their heads it was confusing. And also I don’t think the concept of like recognizing trauma, and when I say trauma, I mean like, poverty, food insecurity, I don’t think that’s talked about enough in intuitive eating, you know. And I think I do acknowledge that they do mention it, you know, Evelyn and Elise, they do mention it in the books, sort of, but in my personal view, I don’t think it’s talked about enough, and that can really affect how someone kind of feels their hunger cues, or even, you know, their relationship to food. So I think, I think that that’s why, you know, it’s not nothing’s perfect, right? But I think those two concepts, for sure, like food insecurity, poverty, sometimes are left out of the discussion.

Summer:
Okay, thank you for that explanation. Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of benefits to intuitive eating and the principles, and I think it really but we It always depends on the individual, right and their own correct, unique history and their own worldview and what they’ve experienced. And, yeah, I think that a lot of intuitive eating comes through that, like more privileged worldview. And so that’s where those two things, like can cause, can cause problems, right? If, if we’re not taking the whole person in the systems into consideration, you’re, you’re known for the like, all foods fit, like it’s in your bio,

Shana:
yes. And I totally agree with you.

Summer:
What would you say to somebody who’s like, okay, all foods fit, but, like, I’m not feeling good eating this way. Like, what? What would sort of be your response or advice to them?

Shana:
Yeah, and I think so, when I say all foods fit, I mean all foods can fit. But if you notice that, let’s say a food does not agree with you don’t eat it, you know, like there is no way to make it fit. You might be intolerant to something. There might be an allergy there. You know, I also like to include foods for medical reasons, but even that requires nuance. You know, like folks who may have gotten diagnosed with diabetes, I think that they’re sometimes being told to restrict foods they don’t have to restrict like everything requires nuance. But when I say all foods fit. I really mean, all foods have a place, whether that’s potato chips, whether that’s broccoli, a salad, you know, all of these foods have a place in our eating pattern. And I think that, you know, food doesn’t just represent nutrients, it also represents joy. And I think that that’s often the forgotten part of eating, you know, is the joyful part. You know. I really, I truly, think that sometimes we focus so much, which, again, yes, nutrients are important, but we shouldn’t have to constantly, whenever we’re eating something, try to calculate the exact nutrients we’re getting, or the exact, like, macros we’re getting, like, it’s okay to just say, I feel good eating this. This is working for me, you know, like, it’s okay. And, you know, not know the exact number, you know, of protein in it, like it’s it’s okay, you know, like, I think sometimes we’re just so, you know, hyper focused on the nutrient aspect we we lose the joy in eating.

Summer:
Yes, yes, totally. 100% 100% I see that so much like, if you’re not a math equation, like I

Shana:
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Summer:
One of the best things that I think you wrote. Is, I believe you posted it. It was really recent, maybe it was like yesterday or today or something. But where you put like, I there’s a correlation between someone having a poor relationship with food on the internet.

Shana:
I mean, I It’s true. Like, it’s true because what and I like it sounds, I mean, I am trying to be funny, but also, I’m also very serious, serious, because when you think about people who you know, feel the need to give their unsolicited opinions on something, and they do it in the most visceral, like nasty way, there is no way there is something else going on, because that’s not and I’m not. I’m not making fun of like health issues or like mental health in any capacity. I mean this, there’s something going on there that’s deeper that they need to work on, and because that’s not a normal reaction to something. And I, and I’m being very serious, like, you know, when you when you look at, sometimes the lectures people are getting in the comment section, when they’re just living their life, that’s not, that’s not normal, you know. And they should really, you know, there’s something going on. Oftentimes it’s projecting. Quite honestly, I think most of the time it’s projecting,

Summer:
yeah, and I think it even, like, it can go as so far as as, like, even if you just have a lot of internal judgments whether you post them on the Internet or not, because when you put when you made that statement, I was like, oh, like, I, I used to do that. I used to, I used to be like, but I would never post because I’m just not that type of person. But right, I’m not gonna do that. But like, just internally, like I would, I would sort of, you know, like, have those judgments because I had such a disordered relationship with food and and so now, you know, to your point, I think you also said, like, if you haven’t, like, a good relationship with food, and you just see food as neutral, like, you don’t do that. And you’re so, right? I’m like, I don’t do that at all anymore, and that’s really great. But, yeah,

Shana:
yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, I don’t even think of, honestly, like, I don’t even look at what someone’s eating, you know, of course, like nutrition this, like, we’re, think we’re thought of as, like, the food police, you know, unless someone, like, don’t get me wrong, if something looks good. I’m definitely looking at what that person is eating. But like, as far as the judgment, as far as, like, really looking at someone and being like, oh, you know, what is that? Why are they eating that? I don’t that, like, thought really doesn’t come across in my head. I think it’s, I think it’s, you know, because again, like, it took me also years. I just want to be clear, like, I didn’t wake up, you know, all of a sudden, like, it took years for me to, you know, it took a lot of inner work for me as well, because I also had a disordered relationship. I think many of us who are in this space did. That’s why we’re trying to help others now, you know, so I definitely used to, because of my own relationship with the food. Of course, I looked at what other people were doing, but now there’s a difference, because I have a much healthier relationship. So, you know, there’s something to be said there.

Summer:
Yeah, and I think you and I, I, you know you’re, I’m a little bit older than you, but we’re similar, like, we’re around the same age, and because we grew up in the 90s, right? Like, well, not grew up, but, like, our impressionable years were through the 90s and early 2000s and so I think that that really buzzed us off such a time, what a time, what a time to be alive.

How do you see, like when you because for me, like when I think about that, and then I see what’s happening now with, like weight loss, drugs and like skin filters and like, all this stuff. Like, I am really afraid for like, generation Alpha. Is that what they’re called, like, does it sort of give you a not clinically PTSD, but do you sort of have that same reaction where you’re just like, oh my god, like, this is the same shit that we went through, and now it’s happening again.

Shana:
It’s all coming back. It’s all coming back, I swear, like the minute I saw, like, low rise jeans coming back, I was, I was like, Oh, here we go. Here we go. Because it’s not just low rise jeans, like the fashion. It’s what that symbolizes, right? Because, you know, people are going to think I need my body to fit into that piece of clothing. I need my body to contort to that piece of clothing, and that’s how this all begins. And so I was just, I was like, this is the turning point right here, because I think that we came from such a boost from the body positivity. And I know the body positive movement still has its flaws, you know, but we came from such a boost during, like, honestly, like the covid, you know, 2020 when we’re all stuck inside, and everyone was really, you know, feeling themselves in a good way. But I, you know, because of what was going on, I think that people were suddenly getting this sense of, you know. Pride and trying to get, you know, to that place of really accepting themselves. And now that, you know things are semi back to normal. You know, of course, there’s still covid happening, but you know, as far as us being outside and socializing again, there was a turn, and I’m noticing, you know, now, even with the ozempic, right, people are popping that like it’s a multivitamin. And I say that because you see these celebrities who don’t, I don’t, you know, as far as need, if we’re really talking need, you know, I, I’m not, like, a fan of people just taking it. But do you definitely see celebrities who are thin? Okay, why are you taking ozempic, like, and it’s just, and it’s, I’m seeing a lot of, like, influencers, people joking about it on social media, saying, oh, you know, I think I’m gonna just, like, take the ozempic, you know, to get into my summer body. Or, you know, like, now the term is big back and all this other you know stuff. So it’s definitely taken a turn, which is concerning, because we definitely went through that in the 90s, and definitely the early 2000s oh my gosh, high school was well, but yeah, it’s, it’s all coming back. All coming back.

Summer:
Yeah, yeah. It’s hard to, it’s hard to kind of watch that again, and it’s like, I’m so appreciative that I really don’t like it. It does not have any impact on me personally. And part of that is because I hold straight size privilege, but also because I’ve just done a lot of work around like, yeah, I don’t need to look like that, you know. But, uh, yeah, it’s just interesting to talk to somebody else who kind of went through that same time frame.

Shana:
And yes, yes, oh my gosh. Like, oh man,

Summer:
but that’s why everyone should buy your book, live nourished, and it’s out now. It’s amazing. I love it. It’s a good another great resource to have on your shelf. And I really appreciate that you do take an intersectional approach and look at the social issues that are also influenced by that also influence health to help people think broader about health and not just think about it through the vacuum of, you know, food and exercise. I think that it’s so necessary to have that understanding in terms of helping us in our own relationship with food and and also so that we can change our culture, so that we when we know better, we can, we can do better for others as well. So I’m so excited to have your book out in the world, and I really appreciate you taking the time to be here today. So where can people find more of you? Shana,

Shana:
definitely. I mean, I’m on social media somewhat regularly, and my handle is the nutrition tea, and that handle is used for everything. So Instagram, I have a Facebook page. What else? Well, Tiktok is kind of here and there, but definitely Instagram. I also have a newsletter, which is called the nutrition tea. So yeah, so you can definitely find me there.

Summer:
Amazing. Thank you so much for being here today, as always, it’s such a pleasure.

Shana:
Thank you so much for having me

Summer:
Always a great time catching up with Shana. You can find her at the nutrition tea, as many of you probably know that already, and definitely check out her new book, live nourished, make peace with food banished body shame and reclaim joy. And if you want to hear an older episode of us, you can check out Episode 181 how to navigate holiday eating and diet talk. That’s another gem for you.

Thank you so much for listening today. You can find everything mentioned here at summer innanen.com forward slash 308, Rock on. I’m Summer innanen, and I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer innanen, and if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts, search, eat the rules and subscribe, rate and review this show. I would be so grateful until next time, rock on.