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Summer:
This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image self worth, anti dieting and intersectional feminism. I am your host. Summer innanen, a professionally trained coach specializing in body image self worth and confidence, and the best selling author of body image remix, if you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale, then you have come to the right place. Welcome to the show.

This is episode 315 and I’m joined by Louise Green, personal trainer, author and creator of the size inclusive Trading Academy. We’re talking about how we feel about the New Year New you messaging, as well as our thoughts on New Year’s resolutions. We also talk about how to know when you’re ready to set fitness goals again if you’ve had a disordered relationship with movement and how to set those goals in a weight neutral way. And we also talk about how Louise feels about the messaging around fitness for people who are 40 plus. You can find the links mentioned at summer Inannen.com forward slash, 315.

I want to give a shout out to little g who left this review? I have listened to all of the episodes, and love how it’s evolved from the beginning summer has empowered people to live their authentic lives in authentic bodies, fabulous listen. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that review. If you have the means, you can support the show via ko fi, that’s k, O, F, i.com forward slash summer innan, and you can go there to make a monthly monetary contribution to the show, such as $5 a month that will help to keep the show on the air. And you’ll get my mini course conquering negative BodyTalk. If you haven’t already done so, definitely subscribe to the show via iTunes or whatever platform you use. That’s another way that you can support the show and definitely leave a review if you haven’t done that already. And you can always get free stuff at my website. Just go to the body image coach.com you can find the 10 day body confidence makeover there. And you’ll also find my guide for providers, which is the body image coaching road map that I created with Danny amma pound cake, and that gives you a road map for working with clients who also have body image struggles.

I didn’t realize that it’s been so many years since I had Louise on the show. I just figured I’d had her on again. But I think that’s because we hang out in real life. Every once in a while we get together just to catch up, because we live in the same city. And so when I looked, I was like, gosh, she hasn’t been on the show since episode 111 which must have been like, so many years ago. I didn’t even look at the date on it, but 200 episodes ago, basically, which is, I don’t know, probably, like six or seven years or something. So anyways, long time ago. So I’m really excited to have Louise back. Louise is a celebrated author, influencer, award winning fitness trainer and creator of the size inclusive training academy. She has been changing the narrative and standards of our fitness culture for over a decade. A long time, she has worked in the trenches for 14 years training women who are considered outside the cultural norm, and does it in an empowering and weight inclusive way. She’s the founder of big fit girl, which has an app and various training programs, and she’s a writer, and she has written some great books, including Big fit girl and fitness for everyone. Let’s get started with the show.

Hi, Louise, welcome to the show.

Louise:
Hi. Thanks for having me. So good to be here.

Summer:
Yeah, thanks for coming back. I don’t even remember the last time that you were here. I should have looked up the episode number. I’ll link it in the show notes. But is this your third time or your second time on the show? Do you remember?

Louise:
I think it’s my second time.

Summer;
Okay, yeah, cool. Welcome back.

So we wanted to get together today because this episode is going to air at the beginning of January, and we thought it would be kind of cool to talk about just the messaging that comes out around this time of year and how to potentially set more fitness oriented goals that are not influenced by diet culture, if that’s possible, which we’ll talk about. Yes, yeah. But before we get into that, like, do you want to share with our listeners what you’ve been up to? Like, I know you’ve been doing a lot with size inclusive training. What’s been going on for you the last, like, year or two years? I know we’ve talked privately. Let’s pretend we have it. What’s been going on?

Louise:
Well, training people for so many years, I would you know, especially online coaching, where you’re dealing with people in other countries, I would say, well, these are the things that you want to look for in a trainer. These are the things that you want to look for in a gym space. And people were coming up empty handed. Well, I don’t have that in my community. I can’t seem to find these people. And so I started to really recognize that, like the certification bodies out there are not touching on size inclusivity in the general certifications, and they’re not touching on weight neutrality. They’re not like we’re still working under a model of certifying professionals in a way that you know, if Bob is this weight and he you know he needs to drop this many pounds, how are you going to get Bob to that position? And so I just started to realize that we’re sending people out into the communities to something that actually doesn’t really exist unless you’re dealing with fitness professionals who have taken it upon themselves to really, like hone that on their own right, and there’s a bunch of tremendous professionals out there that really do invest in size inclusivity and and weight neutrality and fat acceptance and making sure that people feel comfortable in spaces, but it’s not mainstream. So when we’re looking at the majority of the population being in larger bodies, yet the mainstream of our fitness culture is completely not there’s this segregation and divide that is causing some serious health inequities. So that’s when I decided to develop this education and it’s called the size inclusive fitness specialist, and started to shop it around to governing bodies, and created a partnership with ace and created some partnerships with other people, but basically it’s 15 hours of learning about the larger bodied lived experience and what it’s like to go into fitness spaces, and not just what it’s like to walk in the door, but just like from training modalities to how to set up your equipment in the gym and how to the verbiage you use and the language and all these things. So I’ve been really focusing on that part of my business, which is the education slide. This is a long winded answer, but also coaching mostly women on the other side of the business, who are in larger bodies, who are looking for that experience where they’re not being leaned on to be something that either they don’t want to be, or maybe, like me, for many years, couldn’t be. I couldn’t get to this weight that everyone was telling me I needed to be. And I think that’s where you know these clients are my teachers, but they also reflect my own experience. And I think that that really lends to the education that we bring to professionals is that calories in, calories out, isn’t an equation that works for every single body,

Summer:
yeah, yeah. And so what are you noticing? Like, fitness wise, trend wise, like, are you feeling like there’s been a more positive shift towards size inclusivity and weight neutral language? Or are are? Yeah, I Yeah. Are you noticing that at all? Or are you noticing that they’re it’s just kind of like the status quo. What are you noticing?

Louise:
Well, what I’m noticing is, like I said, there’s this group of professionals that come to the table, that that hone this themselves, that are very invested, right, like much like people like you and me and our own businesses that have taken a special interest, often because of the reflection of our own lives. And so there are a group of professionals that have come in that are like they want to that’s the type of business that they want to have. When I talk about mainstream fitness culture, I’m talking about a lot of chain gyms and and like those, those big box gyms, and I’m not seeing a lot of shift there. The other thing that I do want to point out, and this is not in any way to be negative towards men, but the fitness industry is 70% run and owned by men. So when we’re talking about programming and advertising and the way that gyms operate, it’s done through the lens of men, and I find that when I go to approach certain gyms, there’s a lack of understanding of what size inclusivity means, because a lot of people think that that it means that everyone can go into their space, and everyone will be served and and welcomed and and in a lot of cases, that is true, you will be served and you will be welcomed, but you will not necessarily be served in a way from a size, inclusive lens, yes, okay, weight, neutral. Lens, and therefore that sometimes and often re traumatizes people and sends them out the door.

Summer:
So in other words, it’s like, yeah, sure, come to our gym, even though you know you are in a larger body or whatever, but like, you’re probably going to have an experience here where it might be some sort of like overt or more like microaggression related to, you know, weight discrimination or stigma, whether it be like not having equipment available or having a trainer, like, just assume that you want to lose weight or something like that.

Louise:
Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things that we teach in the curriculum, is like, there’s a big list of ways that weight bias and discrimination shows up in fitness spaces. And the sad part about it is, is that it’s very normalized, so people don’t recognize. I’ve had a lot of students say to me like, oh my god, I had no idea that I was operating under that guise. And I didn’t, I didn’t know. And so, yeah, I’m certainly not saying that you know fitness professionals are, you know, bad people, but the education behind understanding the lived experience and really, really understanding how prevalent weight bias and discrimination is in our culture and how we cannot Have that in our fitness spaces, if we want longevity and adherence to this market, that’s massive. It’s a massive, like, a, you know, if we’re looking at larger body people in the United States, it’s like something like 175 million people,

Summer:
yeah, and there’s so much disorder behavior that gets promoted in those fitness facilities, like you have these personal trainers with no like, giving nutrition recommendations and caloric recommendations and like, yeah. I mean, I’ve had personal experiences with that where it was 100% like, exasperating, very disordered habits that I already had,

Louise:
exactly, yeah. I think also you may find that people that have disordered habits go into this profession, because

Summer:
that’s true.

Louise:
You know, it’s a place where it’s normalized. So you’re not going to be people aren’t going to be like, wait a minute, that doesn’t that’s not healthy. Because we’re we kind of normalize that. But, you know, I often say that fitness professionals have no business prescribing any kind of weight loss, whether that’s a service you want or you don’t want because you’re nobody statistically gets thin from exercise alone, unless they’re in extreme disordered exercise. So there has to be caloric restriction, and we’re not qualified that’s out of our scope of practice, to be prescribing any kind of meal plan, unless you’re a registered dietitian or a Registered nutritionist, you have no business prescribing any kind of weight loss. And further to that, because we talked about calories in, calories out, not not necessarily working, is that the reason why somebody’s body is the size that it is is highly complex, and often, if you want to delve into what might be going on physiologically, that requires, like an internal medicine doctor or, you know, even a higher professional. So for any fitness company that’s saying lean down for spring or, you know, like any promises like that, they’re way out of scope of practice, and they’re relying on taking your money and and delivering an empty promise.

Summer:
Yeah, yeah. And you think about like, how many people have been harmed by that cycle and then made to feel like they’re the failure afterwards, and instead of putting the onus on, like, the actual industry and and culture that causes the issues in the first place?

Louise:
Yeah, yeah. And I was one of those people, and I think you were as well. And the detriment that that has to mental health is, and that’s, that’s what I mean, is like, when we talk about health and fitness, it’s this big piece, you know, like, you’re studying psychology now, and it’s like, it’s a big pie. It’s not just how an esthetic of how you look. So if, if I am like, if I’m really, like, diminishing my mental health so I can be thin, which is what I did for many years. That’s not healthy.

Summer:
Yeah, absolutely. 100% Yeah. So what do you think about the messaging that’s like, New Year new you?

Louise:
I think it’s total BS. again. I think, you know, it’s like, when you go to Costco in like, June and the Christmas trees are out, like, we are looking at any way to sell. And New Year New you is like, oh, here it comes. Everybody is going to be wanting to, like, get on their diet and get get in shape, whatever that means. And here’s an opportunity. It’s a capitalist opportunity to lean on your insecurities and and pain points. And like, marketing by leaning on pain points is. Is an old modality.

Summer:
Yeah, wow, yeah. Tell me, like, speak to that more so that people understand, like, how they’re being preyed on with that.

Louise:
Well, I think it’s because the culture puts it out there so much that this is what we’re supposed to look like. This is what you know, this is what women look like. And then because we don’t look like that, because it’s unrealistic, and a very small margin of people actually look like that. And we put fitness models on the covers of magazines and in the in the inside pages who are paid to work out for five hours a day, and you put that in front of the everyday woman, and you think, Oh, I don’t look anything like that. What’s wrong with me? So now I’m kind of in that blame stage, internalizing the weight bias on myself. And then these ads come in New year, new you, you can look like this too. And so it’s like because you’re in that place of desperation and and wanting to, you know, at the core of it, it’s wanting to belong. That’s what we want, is to be as human beings. At the core of it, we want to be valued. We want to be loved. We want to belong in our society. And that’s where you’re being preyed on, is they’re like, here you are. You don’t belong. So you better, you better buy this, and you can belong, but it’s a it’s a farce,

Summer:
yeah, but it’s so and I appreciate you saying that about belonging, because I feel like if you can bring awareness to that as like an individual, so if you’re struggling with this notion that, okay, I need to change my body, if you can say that as like I’m looking to belong, then the solution isn’t changing your body. It’s like looking at that deeper issue of feeling like you don’t belong, right? And so I appreciate drawing that threat out, because I think that’s, that’s you’re right, that is, like, the overarching thing that it’s trying to to sell and capitalizing on the fact that most people after the holidays are feeling more sluggish, more tired, you know, maybe, like, indulged quite a bit, which there’s nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with. But again, there’s because of diet culture, we’re made to feel guilty and ashamed for those things. And therefore this is like the remedy,

Louise:
yeah, and, and again, it’s kind of like motivation by shame, right? It’s like, oh, did you eat too much? Or did you have too many desserts? Or, you know, it’s just like that, that motivation by shame that I just, I think, when you do this work for a long time, you can, you have such a sharp ear and a sharp eye for it, and it’s just like, No, thanks.

Summer:
Yeah, yeah. 100%. so do you like? Do you believe in setting new year’s resolutions? Or what do you do? Or do you not do that at all?

Louise:
I don’t set new year’s resolutions. I like to set specific goals from time to time. But I think what happens with new year’s resolutions is, statistically, we know that they fall flat by February, mostly because I think we’re putting these timelines on it, like, Oh, you’re gonna need to be ready on January one to go and complete this thing. And I think there’s nothing wrong with setting goals. But who’s to say December 31 or gen one is the right day to do that? It may or may not be. And the other thing that I like to talk about, about New Year’s resolutions is January in most parts of the world is colder and darker, and this is a time where we kind of hone in, not expand out. It’s a natural thing that humans do. Animals do it, and so it’s actually at the lowest motivational point, like for our brain chemistry and our motivation to be like, Yeah, I’m gonna, like, you know, go run a marathon. Now, if we were to, like, flip that I always find in my fitness business that September is actually the more busy time of the year, at the end of the summer, where people are like, Okay, I’ve been camping. I’ve been, you know, doing all my holidays and stuff, and now I’m ready to get back to school, and business is where I see more of an influx. So January is a tricky time of the year to like, you know, muster the motivation and and also, like, call to action, that this is the time that I’m supposed to be motivated. And I just think that if you’ve got a goal, it should happen when you’re ready to do it, not necessarily on those days.

Summer:
That

19:26
makes perfect sense to me. I have never, because I know this is the same in the business world too. It’s always like, okay, January, set your New Year’s New Year Plan, like your plan for this year. And I never, ever do it. I have zero motivation. Usually end of August, September is when I feel inspired to think about planning ahead and okay, what am I going to do this year in my business and stuff like that? And it just seems like very counter to how I am biologically and like, like you mentioned, I think it just for anyone who’s kind of living in that Northern. Hemisphere, biologically, it’s kind of counter to what we’re instinctually, maybe supposed to be doing this time of year, which is like hibernating and sleeping and

Louise:
yeah, and I think it comes back to I know in both our practices, that we are really about building Body Trust and listening to our bodies, and really like getting the cues from from within instead of externally, right? And so I think that that’s just a model to follow. Like, if you do have a goal then, and I always talk to my clients about like, think about when, when you’re in the goal, when it when are you mostly energetically motivated? What time of day? What times of the week? Like, I don’t necessarily work out on Fridays, because Fridays are tiring by the end of the week. So that can go into the year as well thinking about, yeah, I’d like to run a 5k at some point in my life. Well, when, when do you feel the most energetically motivated throughout the year. It’s probably not January,

Summer:
yeah, yeah. So that’s a good segue, because I wanted to talk to you about, like, setting goals, because I think that some people who have had a disordered relationship with with exercise and food or one or the other, feel a bit scared. So maybe it’s two things, maybe it’s like they feel like they shouldn’t set fitness goals because that sort of feels a little more like diet culture, maybe. Or secondly, they’re scared to because of their past experience with it. So how do you know, first off, when it’s appropriate to think about setting a goal that’s related to fitness. And then secondly, like, what are some ways to approach that? So we can start with the first part of the question, which is like, how do you know when it’s appropriate to start setting fitness goals?

Louise:
Again, I think it’s really important to understand the why underneath the goal. So, like, what is the intention and what are you like, what are you hoping to get out of it? So, so there’s that, and it also depends on if you do have, like, a disordered history, how long have you been out of that? So my practice is, when someone comes to me with a disordered history, I will ask them, how long would you consider yourself to be in recovery? Because I feel like there is very delicate. It’s very like it can easily take somebody back, depending on how their recovery is and how long they’ve been out of it. And have they had any other had any other experiences getting back into movement. And so if somebody is saying, Well, you know that they have a lot of rigidity around it, I will say right away, like I don’t think that this is a place to start building goals around. I’m one of the things I would say is, and I say this to most my clients, whether they have an eating disorder history or not, or exercise disorder, is that we’re not going to focus on any numbers. So, like, we won’t focus even on pace. I don’t want to. I don’t care if, if they’re in a cardio program. I don’t care what your pace is. I don’t care what you’re lifting. I don’t care how fast or how long you went the distance. Like nothing. We don’t, we don’t focus on numbers, because that’s where people get very tied up in the numbers. But another place I see people get very tied up in is when there’s a plan given to them. Which I do deliver plans, because that’s the nature of my business. But what I do with a plan is, I am very clear that there is no behind you’re not behind you. This is a self paced program, and it’s a guide. So it is not because where I find the disorder, the disorderedness coming out is people want to fulfill the exact prescription. Yes, totally, yes. It’s very rigid. And so the first thing I start to coach people on is, like, loosening the ties of that rigidity. And until I can see that somebody’s able to do that, I wouldn’t be setting any goals with them.

Summer:
Yeah. So would your advice to somebody then be like, just try to get back into doing some stuff and see if you can do it without being really black and white perfectionist about it. And once you’re really comfortable with that, then you could consider doing something like, I really want to run a 5k kind of thing. Like, is that sort of the direction that you would go?

Louise:
Well, the goal would be, the goal would to be what we’re talking about. So my goal for this week is to move my body with the plan as a guide, but to stop if anything feels painful or too exasperated or I’m becoming too rigid and slow. Fully build from there. So the goal is actually kind of the reverse of what fitness culture is. You know, telling people to do, yeah, yeah, people to go, like, when they join my cardio programs. Okay, this week I want you to go as slow as you possibly can. That’s the goal,

Summer:
which I imagine would be so hard for some people,

Louise:
it is, but they’re also relieved, you know, yeah, yeah, like, Oh my God. And it’s sustainable, because they’re, they’re going as slow as they possibly can, and, and I also say if you miss a workout, that is, that’s the end of the story. We’re not going to ruminate on what a piece of crap I am, because I missed the workout, and it’s I missed it, and I said, I want you to go into the program and check it off like it was done, because we’re just moving past it’s done, right? So I have people that really struggle with ticking things off that are not done, and I have people that are really stuck on not following the program to the T and also people that want to do it so perfectly,

Summer:
That is a huge I understand that, because I think there’s this, it’s a couple things like, it’s like one this fear of, I didn’t do enough if I didn’t do this, like, I’m not good enough if I didn’t do this. And then three, I think sometimes probably a bit of, like, the weight loss stuff still kicking around in there, because we can’t just turn that off like a switch that is making us maybe feel like, well, I then didn’t do enough according to, you know, my or I’m going to gain weight maybe, or my body’s not going to change, or whatever, you know, even though that’s they know on the surface level, that’s not the intention, but that still can sort of like co exist in the background.

Louise:
We had that on the coaching call last week. Somebody said, you know, and this is where it’s great in the coaching calls, because we have people that will be really vulnerable. And this woman said, and I do, I make my clients do weekly reflections, as we were talking about prior to recording those reflective moments, right? And she said, I was reflecting that I am doing all this exercise and nothing. I’m not losing any weight and and she said, I can’t believe that I’m still in that mindset. And I said, Of course you are. That’s been the conditioning of decades like, it takes a lot to really unpack that. Anybody that thinks that they can just do like, a six week, you know, Love Your Body program and you’re done, it’s like, no, we’re often going to default there. We’re often going to go back to that place of, why can’t I lose a pound, or why can’t I’m doing all this work, and it’s really about reframing. That’s why I said in the beginning, what’s the why? Because, as far as I know, like I don’t run weight loss fitness programs, so your why to come here couldn’t have been for that, or what was it, and really getting clear on what was it?

Summer:
Yes, so important, so important. I would actually hearing you say that like, and knowing that you’re you know you’re 52 which I hope you’re okay with me sharing that you share age, age positivity, like, what is your why now for for fitness, like, what, what are you? Because I imagine it’s probably different than what it was like 20 years ago.

Louise:
Yeah, 20 years ago, I was all esthetic driven. So for me, it’s a huge mental health piece. Like, I need the endorphins and the then the brain chemistry change. I rely on it. And I also feel very powerful and strong within my body when I’m working out regularly, and I just feel like it gives me that body confidence. So those are kind of some of the reasons. Plus it’s my job, so I, you know, there’s a bit of that, but it’s like, you can’t not work out. You have to do something. So, and I’ve, and I’ve always enjoyed exercise, even when I was in diet culture, to a degree, I always really enjoyed, like, the process of training for things.

Summer:
Yeah. What do you think about the fitness messaging towards, like, perimenopausal menopausal women. Like, what are you what are you noticing? Or what are your thoughts on it?

Louise:
So the messaging for perimenopause menopausal women is still like, I feel there, like there’s a bit of fear mongering there, like, Oh, you’re on the decline. You’re going, like, it’s crashing. You better go do something. And I think it’s, again, just a place of leaning on those pain points, right? Like we know that our bone density is declining, we know that our muscular mass is declining. It’s it’s we know we got it. We also know that all other 10,000 other things are happening to our body. Thank you very much. But. I will say that they, they very much neglect to say that it’s only declining if you’re sedentary. Oh, interesting. That’s the part that they neglect to say, so or I often don’t hear that, you know, if you’re actively, you know. And the thing that I also want to point out is, like, I lift heavy weights, you don’t have to lift heavy weights any form of resistance, which could be swimming. It can be walking, you know, it could be, you know, band exercises. It doesn’t have to be, because I see a lot of like, weight lifting women talking to many perimenopausal menopausal menopausal women about you need to be lifting weights. And yes, ideally lifting weights is good, but it doesn’t have to look like that. We don’t need to idealize that as well. You can do other things that maybe bring you more joy.

Summer:
Yeah, I feel like that’s so helpful. I don’t think I knew that it was the muscle mass decline is really only relevant if you’re sedentary,

Louise:
because if you’re, if you’re, if you’re working on bone density and you’re working on muscle, like building muscle. But I will say that if I take a month off from weightlifting, my decline happens quickly. Yeah, totally. I noticed that too. Now, yeah, yeah, whereas in my 30s, I could take three months off and go back and kind of be the same, right? And and so it does happen very quickly, I notice, but if you are actively moving and resisting, then you’re not declining. I mean, human nature is, as we age into our 80s and stuff, there’s going to be a decline, but it’s not going to be like they talk about this 4% or whatever the percentage is. That really, I think, scares people, because especially people that are not active, right, right?

Summer:
And then I think it puts this other expectation on top, that I should be like, lifting heavy weights X number of times a week. And if you don’t actually like that, like, I actually I do like lifting heavy weights, that is, I do better doing that than, like, anything that, like cardio related, or anything like that. So, but if you don’t which a lot of people don’t like, it feels like another should like. It’s another expectation. It’s another pressure on top of everything else that you have going on in your life. So I do think it’s really helpful for me to hear and help, hopefully helpful for others to hear that like anything counts, like walking, swimming, Pilates, yoga, whatever,

Louise:
yeah, like, even if you are in a chair at home and you stand up and sit down 10 times, you’ve just squatted 10 times, right? Like you don’t need to be because the other thing too is, like, gyms are intimidating, so we’re at, we’re we’re calling telling people, oh, you need to go lift heavy weights now. So that requires a gym membership. You’re going to be in the pit with all the guys, you’re going to be at a squat rack, like, come on. Like, you know, that’s people that are lifting heavy at a squat rack that’s been a progression of probably a lot of years to get them there, right? So I just think that it’s another fear mongering thing that we’re doing to women that isn’t as scary as it sounds.

Summer:
Yeah, well, this has been a really great conversation. I feel like we’ve covered a lot of stuff here, and I feel like people are gonna listen to this and feel so much better. Like, can be like, Okay, I don’t need to put all this pressure on myself. So where can people find more of you? Louise and like, if you have anything that you’re currently running, it’s January when this is going out, if you have anything that you’re currently running, talk about it. Or, I know you have programs that are sort of like evergreen and ongoing too.

Louise:
So yeah, people can find me if you’re a trainer that is wanting to learn more wellness professional at size inclusive training.Com,

Summer:
So the size inclusive training, so if you’re a trainer listening, go, go on. Yeah, what were you doing?

Louise:
Go to sizeinclusive training.com. And then for any kind of programs, coaching programs, weight lifting, cardio programs. In January, we’ll be running size strong strength training at Big fitgirl.com or just on my Instagram, which is Louise green underscore, big fit girl

Summer:
amazing, yeah. And I’ll link to everything in the show notes for people and as always, such a pleasure having you here. Love hearing you talk.

Louise:
You can jam all day. I think, I think so.

Summer:
We’ll have you again if the podcast is still around. Okay, thanks, Louise,

Louise:
thanks for having me

Summer:
rock on. I love that conversation. I could have gone on and on with Louise. There was so much good stuff there. I hope you are feeling more empowered after listening to that. You can find the links mentioned at summer innan.com, forward, slash, 315, thank you so much for listening today. Rock on. You. Hi, I’m Summer innan, and I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer innan, and if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts, search, eat the rules and subscribe, rate and review this show. I would be so grateful until next time, rock on you.