We also explore how we can change our relationship with movement, plus the difference between coaching and therapy.

Don’t forget, I’m on iTunes! You can be one of my kick-ass subscribers. Also, I would be SO GRATEFUL if you took 2 minutes to leave a review. Go here -> click “Reviews and Ratings” and then “Click to Rate”.

Ashantis:
I feel like we have this conversation of it’s not that hard to be healthy without actually realizing how many people live in far different realities and what we’re aware of.

Summer:
This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image, self worth, anti dieting, and intersectional feminism. I am your host summer Innanen, a professionally trained coach specializing in body image self worth and confidence and the best selling author of body image remix. If you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale then you have come to the right place. Welcome to the show.

This episode of eat the rules is brought to you by you on fire you on fire is the online group coaching program that I run that gives you a step by step way of building up your self worth beyond your appearance. With personalized coaching from me incredible community support and lifetime access to the program so that you can get free from body shame and live life on your own terms. Get details on what’s included and sign up for the next cycle at summer innanen.com forward slash you on fire. I’d love to have you in that group.

This is episode 298 and I’m with a Ashantis Jones who is a therapist, mental health coach, personal trainer and group fitness instructor, Sean dis is sharing her story about how ADHD autism and anxiety influenced her eating disorder and how she was able to heal that relationship with her body. We’re also talking about why it’s so important to understand the social determinants of health when we have conversations about health and if you’re struggling to have a better relationship with movement, we talked about that too and how you can do that. We also talked about the difference between coaching and therapy and so much more. You can find the links mentioned at summer innanen.com forward slash 298.

I want to give a shout out to Angeline the tangerine Queen best username ever summer and her guests offer visions of body liberation and finding peace within her own bodies. She fights diet culture and the body shame it ferments with compassion Whitson facts. Love that review. Thank you so much. You can leave a review by going to Apple podcasts search for eat the rules, then click ratings and reviews and click to leave a review. Don’t forget to grab the free 10 Day body confidence makeover at summer innanen.com. Forward slash freebies with 10 steps to take right now to feel better in your body. And if you’re a provider who works with people who may also have body image struggles, get the free body image coaching roadmap at summer innanen.com forward slash roadmap to you believe

we’re on Episode 298, what am I going to do for episode 300? I really don’t know what I’m going to do. And I feel like it should be something special. But I have a lot going on at the moment. So it might not be special. But it’ll just be special in our hearts. I just came off of my four day in person intensive at school, which is always really exhausting. But my brain feels so foul of newer information and things like that. And so that’s always a really good feeling that happens. I love learning about mental health. It’s just it’s the best. I know, this is all just really vague. But I wanted to share that with you. I could go into the specifics. We were talking about the DSM diagnoses and like psychosis and schizophrenia, and that’ll learn about so many different things and different forms of therapies and things like that. So, yeah, lots of cool, cool stuff. Can you call that cool? I mean, I think it’s cool information. Maybe not cool if you have it, but knowing that there’s lots of different ways that we can work with people who have conditions like that. All right, enough about me. How are you doing? Let’s get started with the show here. Ashanti’s Jones is a therapist mental health coach NASM certified personal trainer and group fitness instructor who focuses on both the mind and body, both of which are equally important to one’s health by using an intersectional approach self love becomes the tool that heals and educates. We talked about so many things in this episode, and I think you’re gonna find at least one part that resonates with you, if not more, let’s get started with the show.

Hello, Ashantis Welcome to the show.

Ashantis:
Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Summer:
Thank you so much for being here. It’s really great to meet you like to actually you’re one of those people that I like feel like I kind of know but then have never actually communicated with so.

Ashantis:
actually have a conversation with you? Yes, absolutely. Feels.

Summer:
Yeah. Why don’t you start off by telling everyone a little bit about like, how did you get into this work? Like how did you kind of get into like body liberation? and the work that you do now, which is really multifaceted, because you work with people both on, you know, mental health through counseling, and then as well like physical stuff with personal training. So how did you get into this space?

Ashantis:
Yes, so my journey, I would say, started back in like 2017. And at the time, I was just going through a lot of transition and going through transition at the same time. So I was still a fresh grad graduate, had just been let go for the first time ever in a job, and also ended my relationship with my partner that I was living with all within the span of like, two weeks. So it was just obviously a lot of transition. And at the time, one of the ways that I really coped was saying, you know, like, there’s a lot of things I don’t have control over right now. But the one thing I do have control over is my body. And so, you know, due to my anxiety, it was very easy to suppress my appetite and not eat things. And it was very easy to go to the gym and sit in the sauna, and all the things that you think you’re supposed to be doing in order to be healthy.

But I ended up having a very tough conversation with my primary care physician. And she said, there are a couple of things going on, that I am not okay with. And I am so grateful to her for making me realize that the intentional weight loss that I was going for was actually to my detriment, and that I was processing my own eating disorder. And I really think that had I had a different doctor had I had different people in my life at that time, no one would have noticed, and it would have really felt like, Oh, this is happening, because she’s taking care of herself not because I’m actually trying to control the only thing that I think I can control when everything else is a mess. And so at that point, heard you’ve been teaching zoom a bit, and really started just going hardcore on fitness and strength training and cycling and all this stuff. And then I realized that that was necessary. And I’m so grateful to my, like I said, my doctor, and my friends and family that were like, No, Ed recovery does not mean that we’re just continuing to do the same things, but then not shaming, you know ourselves for it. It’s about unpacking all of the things underneath.

And I realized, like, so much of what I now know, was my autism and ADHD, and anxiety disorder all hanging out with each other and have their own little chaos. That is how it unfolded, because I didn’t know that those things were going on. Because while I received my general anxiety disorder diagnosis, as a teen, I did not receive my autism and ADHD diagnoses until my late 20s. And those are still very recent. So now looking back on it, and reflection as a therapist, that is helping people now also with their own eating disorder recovery, I realized that what in my brain, it was not intentionally there to, you know, harm myself, at the end of the day, that’s what was actually happening. So yeah, after I started to kind of get into really, it started as like understanding more about Health at Every Size and intuitive eating during my own eating recovery. That’s when I decided to go ahead and apply to be in my master’s program. And then once I was in my master’s program, I was like, You know what I really really did enjoy instructing, I’m gonna go back and do that for some additional money. So I got back into the fitness industry a little bit. And then once the pandemic hit, and we went into lockdown, then I made a full transition into fitness while I was still finishing out my counseling program, and manage to solid core studio here in Chicago, then went on to manage a barre studio and then realize that the fitness industry and the recovery process that I was continuously going through, were not syncing up well, because while I was working in environments that definitely did not promote shaming folks for who they are. They also did not appreciate folks for who they really were. So I had this moment where I was like, do I want to continue my career and corporate boutique fitness? Or do I want to really stand on everything that I have been learning and now I’m sharing this education with folks, and ultimately I made the decision to leave and so became a personal trainer in that time started taking my own clients, and really focusing on the ways in which they could enjoy fitness. And for folks who were going through that easy recovery process.

So often folks are really left without support on the fitness side of things, even though it’s so often intermingled, right, like you have your therapist to talk about the trauma of the body stuff and the food stuff. And then you have your rd to talk about some of the food stuff, and to actually speak to you about the ways in which you do need nutrition. But usually, there’s no fitness person in that. It’s only rd and therapists, and it can’t just be rd and therapist because those aren’t the only two roles that are coming up. And so being able to say like I support people who are going through eating disorder recovery, want to figure out how to put fitness back into their lives, without all of the bullshit that comes with it, and what the fitness Industrial Complex has become. And if we get to a point where you are starting to feel somatically emotionally, more of the grief that you you know, you’re mistrust of your body, or the shame that you’re hearing from somebody else’s voice in your head, whatever it is, I also happen to be a therapist. So it’s okay, we can get you down, you know, to a level that’s manageable, we can chat about it a little bit. Obviously, that’s a non clinical setting.

So I would say my coaching skills really come out for that, then yeah, on the therapy side, it’s really the same thing. We can talk about the trauma, we can talk about where it lives in your body, we can talk about all of those things. And then I can also at least speak to you about the ways in which fitness will continue to be beneficial for your mental health, whether you’re going through an eating recovery process or not. And that’s not the case for you know, all of my clients, some of my therapy clients, we’re now talking about body stuff, really at all. But everybody has stuff, and it lives in our bodies in so many different ways. And it’s so important to continue to create more of that holistic connection.

Summer:
Yeah, I totally agree with you. You said so many good things there. And I want to circle back to some of the stuff that you were just talking about as it relates to someone who perhaps has had, you know, like a really destructive relationship with fitness. But first, you mentioned the ADHD, the autism, the the anxiety, how did those things influence your relationship with your body or your eating disorder?

Ashantis:
Yeah, I mean, they were a big, big piece of it. Because I think for a long time, I was like, well, it’s not that I’m intentionally not eating as much as it’s, I’m so anxious that I’m not hungry. And like, I can’t be mad at myself for my anxiety disorder presenting in this, you know, manner. But really, the reality was, Oh, my anxiety disorder makes it so that I’m not hungry. Okay, I’m just gonna really lean into that. And then even once we’re starting the recovery process, I still had this health ism lens, if you will. So it was like, Yes, I need to eat, I can’t just not eat. But I need to eat clean, and starting to get really regimented about that. And saying, it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle choice, which we both know.

You’re like, if it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck. You know, and it’s very common for folks that have ADHD, especially just the way that our brains are wired to end up in the somewhat addictive cycles, simply because like, it kind of gives us a dopamine rush. And so we’re not meaning to do it. We’re not intentionally doing it. But because our brain is like, Oh, that feels good. There’s something there, then we’re attracted to it. And that’s why you end up having so many folks who have that comorbidity of an addiction of some sort, whether it be a chemical dependency or not with ADHD.

Summer:
In your case, would you say that addiction was too like controlling food? And, you know, like, the disorder like that kind of thing?

Ashantis:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I also would say that, like in general eating disorders, a lot of the recovery process looks very similar to folks going through other addiction counseling, again, whether that became codependency or not, and like, that’s kind of where the DSM puts it to some degree. So that’s why I always think about them so inter mingled but be the biggest difference. You can have an abstinence model. That does work for everybody, but you can have an abstinence model with alcohol, with drugs with gambling, you can’t have an abstinence model with an eating disorder. Our only option is to repair the relationship, because people have to eat.

Summer:
Yeah, yeah. 100%. So how did you find that in recovery, then like letting go of that sort of like that dopamine hit like, was that something that you you found something else or you readjusted like have that go?

Ashantis:
Yeah, education, education, education, learning about HAES and intuitive eating, and being like, okay, I can wrap my brain around that that makes sense. And then from there, learning more about fat phobia and anti fat bias. And then from there, and learning about the intricacies of how my identity as a black woman has also been shaped by so many of these same structures. And so at a point, it got to a place where I was like, I was not living in alignment, and me living in that disarray, I thought was being caused because I wasn’t thin enough, or I wasn’t European features, looking enough. But actually, it was because we live in a very racist and fat phobic society. So I’m putting all this pressure on myself. And we as individuals are all putting all this pressure on ourselves to be a certain kind of way that is not in alignment with our spirit, if you will, and like who we are as an individual. And so then, of course, we end up in these situations where we’re like, it’s never feels like enough. It’s not enough, because it’s not you. So I really, that’s why I feel so thankful. While I don’t necessarily agree with all the principles at you know, a deep, deep level of something like intuitive eating per se, because I think that it just, it’s not expansive enough, I am still so appreciative to the text. Because without that Stephanie’s point, I would not have been able to get where I am now. And I think that’s why so many people have a hard time with receiving or hearing messaging from fat positive, folks, because they’re like, well, that simply just doesn’t make sense scientifically. And then we have to be like, well, let’s talk about medical racism. Well, let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about that. Because they’re all connected to each other. And so I felt like Intuitive Eating gave me that information. And then when I started hearing more from a fat liberation standpoint, it was like, oh, okay, I got it, because my foundation, in some ways, has already been set.

Summer:
Yeah, it’s like the stepping stone that helps you to move to the more like radical, quote, unquote, work, right? So you mentioned that, you know, you also like will work with people as a personal trainer who are in recovery from an eating disorder. And so something that I think a lot of people encounter that I run up against is like, people who have had a really disordered relationship with movement. And they want to have a better relationship with movement. But they’re almost I think it kind of goes into camps. It’s like, they’re, they’re sort of afraid to do anything. Or when they do engage in something, it’s like, they can’t kind of get that old mentality out of their heads. So what do you suggest in those situations?

Ashantis:
Yeah, so for my personal training clients, I would say most of them, I do see from this perspective, that maybe they’re not necessarily in eating disorder recovery, but they certainly are in body image recovery of sorts. So I think the biggest piece is reconnecting what their why is because for most people, because this we’re taught fitness in whatever capacity you’re doing it in, you’re doing it because it’s going to help you lose weight. But number one, just because you exert X amount of energy doesn’t mean you’re gonna lose weight. And number two, if that’s the only reason why you’re doing it, then like, it’s not a sustainable reason. It’s not sustainable, because eventually you have to change it right? Otherwise, like, somebody would literally be able to shrink and disappear. Eventually, you have to change your goal. And then at that point, it becomes maintaining it and being restricted to that maintenance. Why are we adding things to this that don’t need to be a part of it? Our bodies do need movement, but do they need movement, and they need to be going through a shame cycle or recycle or like being angry and frustrated that it won’t do what you want it to do or you can’t fit into the size that you want to fit it. Fitness on the surface has nothing to do with any of that, but that’s what capitalism has injected into it. So we focus on how can we get things done in a way that is affirming to who you are right now.

For most people, that looks like simply being excited about the fact that they can do something they thought they never were capable of doing. For other people it becomes I’m just so excited that my life feels easier. And when I have to bend over to do something that my job every day, I now know how to engage my poor properly, and tuck my tailbone and put my weight in my heels. So when I have to continuously do that every day at work, it’s not leaving me in debilitating pain when I get home from work, because I’ve strengthened and understand what my body looks like in those different capacities. So every person’s Why is so different. One person’s why can be, I need to be able to pick up 20 pounds very easily all of the time, because they have kids or because their caregiver, whatever it may be other people, they’re just like, I would love to move my body. But if I’m left to my own, I won’t get up. I just won’t do it. Because I haven’t been excited to do it. And most people, if you’re not excited to do it, you’re not going to do it, or you will, but then there’s resentment and bitterness and other feelings attached and associated with it. And then that kind of puts us back at square one.

Summer:
Yeah. How do you address that, like, not excited about it? Like, because I think that that’s also part of it is when you’ve had this really bad relationship? Like it’s like a bad ex boyfriend was like, I don’t want to date again. You know, like, how do you encourage people to find that? Yeah, that enjoyment again, when it’s been so tarnished.

Ashantis:
For a lot of people, I think that that beginning of like finding what you enjoy has to come from a place of being willing to try a couple things. Because like, the beauty of the creative aspects of the fitness industry, is that there are so many different formats that exists. If you want to lift weights, there’s like 15 different ways we can lift weights, if you want to do Pilates, there’s like three different ways we can do that. If you want to do cycling, if you want to do dance, if you want to do running, if you write like there are so many different ways that we get to move our bodies. So a lot of times I’m like, just pick something, pick something out of a hat if you have to. Because decision fatigue is real. So you know, pick something out of a hat if you have to go try it. When you’re done. Say I liked it. I didn’t like it. If you liked it, okay, maybe I’ll come back, if you didn’t like it. Let’s try something new. We have other options.

And I think so often we’re like, Oh, if it’s not running, if it’s not lifting weights, it’s not really fitness. Who said that? Who came up with that? It’s not real. And it goes back to the only reason somebody is saying that is because they’re trying to get your money out of like, I’m only going to tell you Oh, running is the only thing that you can do. If I’m selling a running package. So it’s like, Does this person actually wants to support you? Or does this person just want your money? And I feel like that’s the conversation that we’re I’m kind of consistently having with people?

Summer:
Yeah, absolutely. Like looking at where this is actually coming from. So one of the things you talk about is the social determinants of health. And so why do you think that’s so important to bring into the health conversation?

Ashantis:
I mean, one, because they’re really the basis of the health conversation. Because I, I know, obviously like things are set up differently in Canada versus here in the States. But so often, in the States, I feel like we have this conversation of it’s not that hard to be healthy without actually realizing how many people live in far different realities and what we’re aware of, because you’ll really, you’ll know, the people who say it’s not that hard to be healthy, are not people who live on food stamps. They’re not people who are coming from violent neighborhoods. They are not people who have books at their schools that are halfway put together and missing pages. It’s people who come from power and privilege that are saying these things, but if you ask a person who is living off of food stamps, they’re gonna tell you, and I know this firsthand because I have lived off of food stamps, they’re gonna tell you, I’m trying to stretch this money as far as I absolutely can. And that probably means I’m getting canned items. And I’m getting things that come in boxes and things that are shelf stable, over produce. That isn’t is like not even supposed to be grown this time of the year. So it absolutely is going back so much faster than anything else I can eat and it’s not satisfying enough to keep somebody full. You cannot tell somebody just go for a walk if they live in a neighborhood that is experiencing gun violence that is completely out of their control. I’m not expecting anybody who’s living in the area that’s experiencing gun violence to just go for a stroll down their street, that’s a ridiculous thought, I’m not expecting people who are being given textbook that are halfway put together to understand that they are actually being fed lies about their health care system. Because if we keep people out of the know, then they don’t know, to ask questions. They don’t know that they are even other possibilities. So while again, this is you know, more of the American lens, our country is acutely aware of social determinants of health, they’re absolutely aware of it. And yet, it never comes up in a health class never comes up in a lecture, you know, unless the person who is giving that instruction has already done the work themselves. He says, I can tell you, as NASM, certified personal trainer, there wasn’t a whole chapter on Social Determinants of Health as a person with a master’s of education and counseling, we didn’t have conversations about social determinants of health. There’s a reason it’s being left out of the instruction book.

Summer:
Yeah, I went to nutrition school, and they didn’t talk about it either. So it’s like, we’re teaching things and learning things through a vacuum of privilege, like you said,

Ashantis:
well, and the percentage continues to vary. But let’s just say for the sake of round numbers, we are truly in charge of 30%. And social determinants of health is in charge of 70% of our, you know, health status, we only learned about that 30%. And no wonder then people are in these situations where they feel like I have to work out even if I’m hungry, and I don’t feel well, or I have to not eat even though my body is like, please, please eat something because they’re trying to fit themselves into a little hole that they were never meant to fit in.

Summer:
Yeah, and we’re focusing on the wrong things, right? Like, if we really care about how we were talking about getting people a better living wage, we would talk about creating, you know, better housing situations for people and things like that. But it’s easier to tell people to go eat fruits and vegetables.

Ashantis:
Exactly. And then when they say, Oh, well, I live in a section of the country that is experiencing food, apartheid, and y’all refuse to put a grocery store over here. Well, you should make more money so that you can live in a place where your grocery stores down the street? Well, how are they supposed to make more money? If they can’t go get an education? Because an education costs money? Where are they supposed to get the money from? And then people are shame because they can’t figure out how to make two pennies turn into $2,000,000.03. Odd?

Summer:
Yeah, it’s a bit of a depressing conversation, because it’s like, it’s really hard to see a way out of it. But I think that the awareness is really important, like, because you, you and I both said, like we didn’t know about it, until we knew about it much later in life than we should have. Right. And so that’s why I think it’s important. It’s an important part of the conversation. And when people are talking about health, like that, like you said, needs to be the basis of it is talking about those things.

Ashantis:
Because I think if we really focused on the education, the community, the ability for folks to have a living wage actually having grocery store, like if we really sat down and focused on all of those things, and that’s where the money and the research and the data was going versus how can we figure out how to sell them another drug, that’s going to give them a bunch of side effects. But we’re not going to tell them that we’re gonna wait for it to hit them, and then be like, Oops, sorry. Like, we’re what are we doing here? Y’all? What are we doing here?

Summer:
Yeah, I totally agree with you. Okay, let’s shift gears and talk about the one thing that we said we were going to talk about that we haven’t talked about, which is like we’re both we’re about your pre licensed counselor at this moment in time when we’re recording this, which is made 2024. So you are working with clients. Now I am in training to be a counselor as well. What do you see as well, I’d love to hear your thoughts about like the differences between coaching and therapy, and especially as it relates to like helping people with their relationship with their body.

Ashantis:
Well, in general, I think that like the hard thing about body is that when it comes to this one topic, everybody is like scope of practice who and so when I think about what my scope of practice is, as a coach in person and my, my scope of practice as a therapist, while in both realms, I’m supporting the individual that’s in front of me the way in which I’m giving them that support looks different as a therapist. I’m not going to tell you what to do. My job is to sit there. Listen, reframe. Ace things back to you, and help you drive through whatever route you would like to drive through to get to your place of healing, if you will, I can’t make that go faster. I can’t. Like, I’m really just a listening ear, a passenger in the driving seat, or in the Y’all know what I’m trying to say, a passenger in the car.

Versus as a coach, I’m your driving instructor. And when you tell me, I want to do X, Y, and Z tasks. Okay, well, here’s step 123456. And seven. Is it collaborative? Absolutely. Because I can’t just everybody can come to me with the same goal. But the way in which they get to that goal still has to be individualized, because they are all different people. But it is a lot more of me responding with my thoughts, in coaching versus in therapy. I’m responding, I’m essentially parroting what you’ve said back to yourself so that you can like hear it and frame it and say, Oh, that isn’t alignment? Ooh, maybe it’s not. And so the way that I always tell people, like the biggest, biggest difference is how much the person talks. When I’m your therapist, I’m talking maybe 50% of the time, maybe, but like, probably more like 20. When I’m your coach, Oh, we’re back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I might end up on the top with that 6040 split.

Summer:
Yeah, that’s really interesting. My approach is different. I when I’m coaching people, I’m just asking, like, open ended questions, I’m really kind of like leading from behind. So I will offer the appropriate like tool for someone to get where they want to go. And it’ll be a little bit more action oriented. But my, the way I was trained in my coaching was to really talk last, so it’s, it’s just interesting, it’s not saying like, one’s better than the other. And it’s like, totally, because everyone has their own style. But, ya know, it’s just really interesting to hear, because my perspective on it is like, with counseling, like a lot of the skills overlap. It’s like the asking of the questions, the actively listening the like, like that person lead, but it’s the scope in terms of like, when I’m coaching someone, it’s really more about the here and now and moving forward versus like, we’re not going into any of the trauma of the past like that therapy, that’s count or counseling. And so yeah, no, I was just curious, because it’s like it, I think, like, it’s just different for different people.

Ashantis:
Yeah, it’s just different. Well, and I think it probably also has to do with the fact that like, I was a therapist first, and then got into coaching, versus in your experience, you weren’t coach first, and now you’re becoming a therapist. So I definitely, you know, in the same way that I feel like, at the end of the day, you can have a social worker, or you have a professional counselor, and they both are therapists, but the way that we come at it slightly different angles.

Summer:
Yeah. And every I mean, everyone has their own unique way of doing things like I, it’s probably a little bit more of my introverted nature to like, take kind of more of a like a listening versus talking. Because talking is really draining for me. It also just like works well, sometimes. But yeah, it’s yeah, no, I just wanted to ask you about that. Because I thought that was it. We were sort of like we’ve got like, parallel kind of careers there yet slightly different in terms of like the order of things.

Ashantis:
Yeah, well, and I also think that speaks to the fact that like, that’s why we need more people doing this work. Because there are clients that you’re going to see that I’m not going to be a fit for their clients that I’m going to see that you’re not going to be a fit for. And that’s why we can’t have one, eating disorder therapists that is actually practicing from a weight inclusive and fat positive approach. We need a lot more than one of us.

Summer:
Yeah, it’s so true, isn’t it? Like because I think about all the people that I’ve worked with as like, as clients, like practitioners I’ve worked with, and there’s things that have resonated and things that haven’t and for sure, they would work really well for somebody else, and maybe just know it for me. And so it’s like, you got to find that fit. And I think that’s actually like an important part of the process with finding any kind of practitioner is like asking them questions before you work with them, like making sure that you feel like there’s like, potential for a really good relationship there. And I’m checking in about that throughout. Don’t feel like you have to people please stay with the same person. If you don’t, if you’re not like if they’re not if you’re not vibing with them.

Ashantis:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I’m such a people pleasing nature, because it’s like, I think, because that is essentially like my masking. But I had to really intentionally put it in my terms and conditions, even with clients of like, we’re going to check in every couple of whatnots you know, every couple of weeks every couple of months. Whatever it is, I want to make sure that you’re still doing this because you want to do this and not because maybe we’ve cultivated a relationship where you like, trust and respect me, but like, you’re scared, I’m gonna be mad at you, if you stop working with me, if you make the determination that we’re no longer a good fit, or that you’re done with this part of your journey, congratulations. Good. Because I certainly do not ever want to be taking somebody’s money because they feel guilty. And like, feel like they have to give me their money. I realized that’s how a lot of providers work, but not me.

Summer:
Yeah, I think if you genuinely want the best for a client, then you want them to be with someone who’s the best fit. And if that means it’s not you, then that’s great means that they’re going to find someone who’s better or they’re going to find the right approach for them. Yeah. Okay. Well, as we wrap things up here, where can people find more of you?

Ashantis:
Yes, I am on all the social medias really, and my handle stays the same. I am a scientist. But mostly you’ll see me on Instagram and tick tock these days. But you know, you can also check me out on my website, www dot Ashanti’s drones.com. And I usually will post any of the articles I’m being featured in or podcasts like this in case you want to hear me chat a little bit more. And then that’s where folks can usually find my schedule for group fitness classes, whether they be in person or virtual. And then service is if they want to work together.

Summer:
Yeah, amazing. Well, it was so great meeting you and having you here today. I really appreciate our conversation and getting to know you better. Thank you so much. Bye. Oh, Rock on.

So many good pieces of conversation there. I love it all the topics that we covered, and hopefully you did too. You can find the links mentioned that summer innanen.com forward slash 298. Thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate you. We’ll talk to you next time rock on.

I’m Summer Innanen. And I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer Innanen. And if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts search eat the rules and subscribe rate and review this show. I would be so grateful. Until next time, rock on.