Plus, how she’s learned to celebrate and embrace her body, and the importance of using self-expression to heal.

Don’t forget, I’m on iTunes! You can be one of my kick-ass subscribers. Also, I would be SO GRATEFUL if you took 2 minutes to leave a review. Go here -> click “Reviews and Ratings” and then “Click to Rate”.

Tiffany:
I was never told by you know other outside of my family and you know a few people in my life that I could be beautiful. And so neutrality wasn’t enough to counteract that messaging for me.

Summer:
This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image, self worth, anti dieting, and intersectional feminism. I am your host summer Innanen. a professionally trained coach specializing in body image self worth and confidence and the best selling author of body image remix. If you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale then you have come to the right place. Welcome to the show.

This episode of eat the rules is brought to you by you on fire you on fire is the online group coaching program that I run that gives you a step by step way of building up your self worth beyond your appearance. With personalized coaching from me incredible community support and lifetime access to the program so that you can get free from body shame and live life on your own terms. Get details on what’s included and sign up for the next cycle at summer innanen.com forward slash you on fire. I’d love to have you in that group.

This is episode 289 and I’m joined by Tiffany ima who is also a body image coach. And you may know her from her Instagram page at Tiffany IMA. She is here sharing her story of how she developed exercise bulimia as well as bulimia and what helped her to overcome these conditions. We also talk about why body neutrality isn’t enough for her and how she’s learned to celebrate and embrace her body. We talked about the importance of using self expression to heal and so much more. You can find the links mentioned at summer innanen.com forward slash 289.

I want to give a shout out to Pammi D 44. Who left this review. This podcast is fantastic summer is so enlightening and refreshing and listening has helped me really understand the pervasive diet culture and how to truly appreciate and love my body and make peace with my relationship with food and eating. Thank you so much. I’m so glad the show has been helpful for you. If it’s been helpful for you listener, you can leave a review by going to Apple podcast search for eat the rules, click ratings and reviews and click to leave a review. You can also subscribe to the show via whatever platform you use that helps people to find the information you’re learning here. It’s a free way for you to support the show and keep it on the air. You can grab the free 10 Day body confidence makeover at summer innanen.com forward slash freebies with 10 steps to take right now to feel better in your body. And if you are a provider or a professional who works with people who also have body image struggles, get the free body image coaching roadmap at summer innanen.com forward slash roadmap

I have been following Tiffany for years, I am absolutely honored to have her on the show sharing her story and talking about her approach to body acceptance and going beyond money neutrality. Let’s get started with the show. Hi, Tiffany, welcome to the show. I’m so happy to finally have you on here.

Tiffany:
Oh my gosh, summer. I’m so excited. We’ve been talking about doing this for like over a year, I think.

Summer:
I feel like it’s been at least a couple of years for sure. So I’m thrilled that we were able to make it happen. I would love for you to just you know, tell everyone a little bit about what your journey has been like to get to where you are. So maybe we just start out by you talking a little bit about like, what was your relationship like with your body when you were growing up? Yeah.

Tiffany:
So when I was growing up my relationship with my body was it I didn’t think about it. I didn’t have the type of mom who made us feel self conscious in our body. My mom was plus sized and if anything she would tell us to eat to gain weight. So when I was young, I was an athlete. I was super creative. I was in sports. I was in comic improv camp, I was an art class I did everything. And my mom really pushed the the side of us that was more about our creativity and more about us doing things that were was fun for us. So I didn’t start thinking about my body until I got to junior high when I switched into a Catholic predominantly white school. And people started bullying me for my body for for being dark skin. And that’s when my body issues kind of started. I was still in this place where you know at home I wasn’t made to feel any type of way. So it hadn’t developed it into anything until I would say right around the end of high school and leading into college. And that is when my body image really started to take a turn for the worse. So when I was in college, I again, I went to a predominantly white college at Ohio State. And I literally remember the moment where I felt like I had to change my body, it was no longer like a thought it was more like a half, two. So I was in my dorm with my dorm mates. And I was showing one of them, pictures of me from high school. And I think I was talking about, like how being a college maybe breakout. And she flipped the conversation to my body and started telling me how much weight I gained since I got to college. And just, you know, it made me feel like, Oh, this is this is like wrong. In my mind, I never thought of it as something that was bad, I just thought of it as something that just happened. And I didn’t notice it as much until it was pointed out to me. And from that moment, I had this idea in my mind that I had to be skinny, in order to fit in in order to feel good about myself. Even though I’ve never had a problem with feeling, you know, okay, in my body before I just it was like now I have to be skinny in order to fit in. And so from there, I moved into exercise bulimia, where I would go to the gym and my purge would be exercising for hours, I would, I would literally be in the gym as much as I could outside of class. And outside of doing schoolwork. There are even times where I skipped class to go to the gym, because I felt like I ate too much the day before. So during this time, I was just it was like I was becoming more and more disconnected with myself with my body. And moving into this place where everything I did was about getting approval and about people looking at me and saying, Oh, she’s, you know, the Fit black girl, and she’s skinny. And it was like me trying to fight against all the stereotypes that was that were associated with dark skinned black woman. And I felt like I needed to be pressing towards this really arbitrary Mark, where I wanted to lose as much weight as possible. And it was there, there was no real destination, I guess, you know, I want it to be below a size two, that was my destination. And it’s just like thinking about it. Now I’m just like, man, it’s so arbitrary and like, like nothing about me or my mind changes going from a size to to a size six to a size eight, it doesn’t, doesn’t change who I am as a person, but I felt like it did. I felt like my identity was wrapped in what my body looked like and what other people thought of my body. And it was just a fight pretty much throughout my entire college career. And you know, the exercise bulimia eventually developed into full bulimia, where I would binge and purge and you know, the the binge is just the way that I describe it is this feeling of you’re just, it’s just out of control you there’s overeating, which is conscious, like on Thanksgiving, where you like, Oh, I’m getting a second plate because we don’t get thanksgiving for that often. And then the binge is like something that just takes over your whole body. And, you know, when I will come down from that. It’s almost like a stupor you go into when I will come down from it. I will feel so much shame. And I will be like, Okay, now I have to make up for this was bad. This was bad. I have to make up for this. And so I will purge or I will go to the gym and exercise. And it that lasted pretty much through college. And then about five years after college, where I was just struggling with his eating disorder. And, you know, I was really embarrassed because I’m like, people would always say, oh, yeah, black people don’t get eating disorders, we would never have eating disorders. And this is something that like even my close friends would say, and they didn’t know I was struggling with bulimia. But I felt like I didn’t have a safe space to even to even talk about it. And I wasn’t in a community that encouraged therapy. So I was just like, in my mind, I was like, I think around 2015 ish. I was like, I can’t live like this. Like, I can’t I can’t continue to live like this. And so with sheer grits, and will I was like I’m up the hill. I’m not about to, you know, purge anymore. And I just kind of took on my recovery by myself, which I always tell my people do not do this. Like it took me way too long to heal it. I think 2015 might not be the number. I think it was around 2013 or 14 where I was really starting to to admit that I had an eating disorder to myself and start to think like what can I do to get out of this? And so 2015 was when I really was like okay, no, no, this is this is for real. Like I can’t do this. And instead of going to therapy, I bought textbooks. I studied like I studied the therapy methods and I tried to, you know, figure out how to do it myself, which, you know, obviously, like people, it’s gonna take me a long time to do that. So, but I spent the next like year and a half, really just kind of studying methods to heal my eating disorder on my own. So I didn’t have to say anything to anyone. And, you know, it worked for me, because of how I am as a person, I always tell my people, I’m an education hoarder. So, I will literally study anything and like, I will, I will figure anything out. But it didn’t need to take, I think in total, three and a half, almost four years for me to heal my eating disorder, didn’t need to, it didn’t need to be that. So I, around 2018 was when I was actually like, fully recovered, I wasn’t engaging in eating disorder behaviors, but I still had the diet culture mentality. Like, I still felt like, you know, being smaller was better. And between 2017 and 2018, that’s when I started to get really heavy into fitness into lifting. And it was mostly focused on you know, relieving depression symptoms, and for my mental health, but I still had my identity wrapped up in being a fit black girl. And that in that time, like, social media was really popular, the booty guy, like, you know, growing your booty, and it that was something that I like, really dove into. So when I first started out lifting it was about mental health, but it kind of quickly blossomed into this whole aesthetic, like, you know, get gains grow your but mentality, because I hadn’t, I hadn’t deprogram my mind yet from diet culture. So it was very easy to kind of fall back into it. So I call that my partial recovery phase, where I was like, you know, I don’t have an eating disorder actively anymore, but I’m still kind of entrenched in diet culture. And I think, mid 2018 to 2019. I had a follower comment on one of my posts, they were like, I can’t follow influencers like you because I can’t grow my butt. And I was like, you know, my first thought was like, of course you can you just need to do XYZ, you need to, you need to eat XYZ. And,

Summer:
of course, right, exactly, like, look at me, do what I’m doing.

Tiffany:
Lo and behold, I’m someone who’s always built muscle easily, like it’s never, my body changes really easily in both directions, I have my setpoint ranges, like 20 pounds. And, you know, I didn’t really struggle to lose weight until I was trying to be a double zero. Like when I was trying to be tiny, tiny, but like my body pretty much, you know, it moves and moves weight pretty easily. And so in my mind, I was like, Well, my body can do this, everyone’s body can do this. And it’s just not true like, and once that comment was made to me, because I’ve always been passionate about helping people be inspired to be themselves. Even when I was struggling with my own identity, I still want it to inspire people. And that was my presence online, which I feel by the way, I started out as a style blogger in 2012. And Mike recovery is kind of what moved me away from the style side of my, my presence. But anyway, once he made this comment, I was like, Well, damn, I don’t want to make people feel bad about their bodies. And I didn’t want to be the person telling people that they needed to change themselves. And I was like, Okay, I need to look at what I’m doing what I’m talking about, and figure out how to do this better. And how I wanted to show up online, where I was actually helping people versus like, you know, making them feel a certain type of way about themselves. And so that’s when I went back to my education horror face. And that’s how I found the anti diet community around 20, mid 2018. And I was just like, floored, I had never heard this ideology before. And it made sense to me, because I’m like, I know so many people who have gone on and off diets and like they would lose weight and gain it back quickly. And then they will be on another diet. And they will try new diets every few months. And it didn’t work. Because diets are set up for failure. And it’s it’s intentional, because diet culture keeps getting our money if we keep failing our diets. And you know, and then we’re told that it was our fault. Like we’re the ones that should be ashamed that a diet didn’t work. But just that one comment made me led me down this path to realize that bodies are different, they’re supposed to be diverse. Not everyone can lose weight easily. Not everyone can gain weight easily. Everyone has different bodies, and that is not just okay, it’s really beautiful. So that’s what led me to the path that I am today as a body image coach and really helping people to be at home in their bodies, whether they like the way they look or not. And so that’s my story in a nutshell. I could talk about my story for two hours but

Summer:
yeah, but it’s such a good story and I and like I have so many questions coming out of it and And, yeah, I mean, I can relate to, to a lot of it like, obviously we have a different identity. But, but like that, yeah, just like needing to be like as small as possible when like, clearly, like, your body’s not meant to be that way at all. And that the relationship with exercise thing to like I definitely had a very, very similar experience in terms of yeah, just spending like hours and hours at the gym. That’s actually one thing I just am really curious about is related to that, like, because you seem to have a really good relationship with exercise now. And I feel like that’s almost like one of the hardest things for people who have had a really obsessive relationship with exercise or a disordered relationship with exercise to then have a better relationship with with movement. So, like, what I’m just curious to know, like, what helped you to then sort of cultivate a more peaceful relationship with it? Because it’s not an easy thing to do?

Tiffany:
Right? Yeah. And I think for me, my my foundation of movement was always positive. You know, I feel very blessed to have a mother who she put us into things like we were in summer camp, we went, we did every sport, I did double dutch. So so the movement that I engaged in, it was just so varied. And it was, so it was just whatever I wanted to do at that time. And so I ran track, I double dutch jump rope. I went to the skating rink and we always had movement in our life, my dad would take us to the park and we would kick a soccer ball. Like I did tennis I did everything that you could think of I tried everything you can think of. And so reconnecting to my inner child was the biggest thing that helps me to move away from this mindset, that movement is only for weight loss, because I didn’t really develop until I got to college. And so I just reconnect it to the things that I love when I was a kid, and found this place where I use movement for punishment for so long. And I was like, This was fun. For me, when I was a kid, we would just run around and do whatever, ride our bikes miles to our uncle’s house like it was, it was always fun for us. And I never thought about it as this thing that was supposed to be that you had to do, it was just something that we did, because it was in our lives. And so just drawing back from when I was a child really put me back into this mentality, like no movement should be fun. It should be something that you enjoy. And you know, a lot of people ask me like, Well, what do you do if you hate movement, I’m like, Okay, if you hate movement, there’s some deconstruction that needs to happen. Because movement can be so many different things. And you can start adding it back into your life in a variety of ways. It can even be when you go to a store, you park super far away and enjoy that walk to the store. And that’s like just something simple that you can do. And so I started to like, really reprogram how I thought about movement, and what movement actually was for?

Summer:
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s super helpful. I love like thinking about what you did as a kid. And I’ve seen that with clients to go back to, you know, some of those things actually have funny enough, I don’t think she would mind me sharing this. She’s not a client, she’s a friend, but she actually just started like doing like jump rope again. And like, there’s like all these people doing like tricks and stuff. And like, so she started to learn all these tricks. And it’s like, yeah, it’s just like finding something that is not necessarily like traditional in terms of like, you know, just like lifting weights or going on a treadmill. But doing something that’s just fun. One of the things that you’ve said before is that body neutrality doesn’t work for me. So I’d love for you to just elaborate on that. What you mean by that?

Tiffany:
Yeah, it’s kind of funny how I got there, because when I first entered to the anti diet space, I, I was like, I was aiming for neutrality. And it did help me because it helped me to move from an a space of, you know, appearance is everything. Exercise is only for parents that helped me move from this from one place to another. And, you know, on days where I was feeling overly negative, being neutral was helpful. But a few years after I found the anti diet community, I realized, I took the neutrality literally and every point part of my life and my self expression was very stifled because of that neutral feeling. And so I was like, Okay, this this, I don’t feel like myself, like I wasn’t, you know, engaging, I love fashion, I went to school for Fashion and Retail Studies. And it was I love styling, like I love getting dressed up. I love you know, putting on all these accessories and I just wasn’t doing any of that anymore. And I was like, you know, I got to this place where I don’t hate my body anymore. I feel confident in my body but something is missing like something is actually missing from this journey. And you know, as a black woman, I was told on my life by various people that I couldn’t be beautiful. And I was again blessed to have a mother and father that told me I was beautiful. So like that, in my age was always in my mind but like from the media and from school like being bullied and The predominantly white school where people will say, Oh, you’re too dark skinned, like, you’re not you can’t be you’re not pretty, like if I was never told by, you know, other outside of my family and you know a few people in my life, that I could be beautiful. And so neutrality wasn’t enough to counteract that messaging for me. And instead of, instead of saying, Okay, let me just be neutral about how I look, because I don’t, you know, I don’t believe societal standards are accurate. It was, let me expand what I actually think beautiful is, and let me expand my idea of beauty. So that I can appreciate beauty both of myself and other people. And I, you know, one thing I love about that is I find beauty literally anywhere now, like I can see it and all people and whether they’re conventionally attractive or not. And, you know, I firmly believe that beauty isn’t the most important thing. And I definitely don’t think you have to like your appearance to be confident in your body. But I personally prefer to find joy in how I look. And the way that I present myself, I like finding joy in that. And I spent so much time hating my skin tone, like my Nigerian features. And as I healed, I started to see these features as a dark skinned woman with Nigerian heritage as a beautiful thing. And instead of saying, Okay, well, societal beauty standards are trash true, instead of just saying that they’re trash, and I’m not gonna adhere to them by saying, like, we’re on neutral about it, I’m going to define my own beauty standard. And I’m going to then not let societal standards dictate what I see as beautiful. And, you know, there’s more than one way to engage in body image healing. Some people love saying that neutrality, and I think that’s beautiful. Some people get to acceptance, and that’s a great place for them. Some people get the confidence, and that’s good. Some people are like, No, I want to love every single roll and curve I have, and that’s fine, too, if you can get to that place. Beautiful. And I think it’s important that every single person finds the path that works for them.

Summer:
Yeah. 100% I love that. It’s just such an important differentiation point, like from what I’m hearing you say is like, it was really like, you really had to kind of connect with you know, like, your, your heritage and your culture and your self expression. And, and I think that that’s like such a wonderful thing. And I think sometimes like yeah, people, people will say to me, like, well, I don’t know if I should wear this because it sort of is like conforming to like society’s standards of femininity, and I’m like, Well, what’s your like, what, what expresses you? Like, what’s a way that you want to decorate your body and celebrate yourself? And I think that sometimes that piece of it sort of gets lost? When we do just focus on like, yeah, like that just the word sort of neutrality, which I think is an important piece of it, but it’s not like, you know, it’s not just like this constant state. It’s like, No, you can like, really kind of go further and be able to embrace and like, appreciate who you are, who you are, and have that also be like an external thing, too. Yeah. Exactly.

Tiffany:
Yep. And, you know, for me, like self expression, I’ve, and this, this, definitely I didn’t hadn’t connected this until we started talking today. But this definitely goes back to what my mom taught me as a child. She was adamant about our creative expression and getting us into activities. And, you know, like I said, earlier, I literally did everything. I didn’t know how my mom would find these camps, like how did i How did she find common – and so, like, I was always exposed to all these different areas of artistic expression. And I lost a lot of that, especially in the years where I was like, spending time counting calories, and just like, spinning anytime I had outside of work or school in the gym, and I just lost this creative side of myself. And, and even when I was creating things, it wasn’t coming from this authentic place because I was so focused on what other people thought about me and what other people thought about my body and what I was doing. And it it really I just had to reclaim my own self and my my body autonomy and say no, like, I this is this is who I am. And you know, like you were mentioning, we can get to this place where we’re healing our body image. And then the mindset of well what if people say this is wrong can still linger? And so instead of saying, Oh, are people gonna think I’m small enough it’s are people going to think I don’t love myself because I like to wear lacy skirts, or like I like putting makeup on. And those are still valid forms of expression. The key is that whatever you’re doing doing it because you genuinely love it and you join usually like to take a part of it. One thing I did, because makeup for me it was something where it was like I’m trying to cover myself, I don’t like my features I have to. I’m really ugly without makeup like that was my thought. And so when one piece of my healing journeys, I went like a year without wearing any makeup at all, but then I was able to engage in makeup again, in a fun way, be later because I was like, oh, no, no, like, I actually do like putting makeup on. Don’t need to do it every day, I definitely have more days where my face is completely bare and natural, then I wear makeup, and but I don’t feel like I need to have makeup anymore. And so, you know, I, I learned to make it a part of my expression without needing to adopt it as a part of my identity. As you know, this is how I’m beautiful. I’m only beautiful. If I’m wearing makeup. You don’t have to do that. And you can always find, you know, a happy medium, even if it’s something that happens to align with what traditional standards say about beauty.

Summer:
Yeah, I love that.

So I wanted to talk to you about the process that you that you take clients through because I know that like self expression pieces is part of it? Or is that what you call it? I can’t remember. But so what is like what how do you sort of see when you’re working with people like what are what are the parts of the process that you that you tend to focus on that would that might help people who are listening sort of think about it in a in a different way?

Tiffany:
Yeah, so my my framework is called the body peace plan. And it’s really about finding this space where you get you break free from body shame not not so just so that you can proclaim how much you love your body, but so that you can then go and live with more joy and more freedom. And it has three pieces. The first one is to cultivate compassion. Self Compassion is very, very important when you’re talking about body image, because you’re already getting from the world to be hard on yourself. And so you have to learn how to rewire that and be compassionate with yourself. The second piece is connecting with your body. Through the years of diet culture, and the messaging that you get, you become very disconnected with yourself. And there’s a lack of trust with your body. And that translates to pretty much every area of your life, like you don’t trust almost even your mind anymore. And so you know, reclaiming who you are, and learning to trust your body is so important. And then the piece that makes my framework so unique is is the last part which is celebrate self expression. And you get to this place where you have learned to heal your body image. And you’ve learned to get to this place where you know, you are like, I don’t hate my body anymore. But self expression is the way that you really are in tune with who you are as a person, and allows you to show up unapologetically yourself. And you know, I SPIs specifically talk to creative women, multi passionate, creative women who just have this desire to put out artistic expression. And for me, in my journey, I lost the sense of artistic expression, as I was battling with my body. And I want to encourage other women to be able to create with more joy and freedom. And that’s where that self expression piece really ties in. Because you when you open yourself up, and you start to learn to trust your body, the the things that can come out of your mind is just so beautiful. You just you’ll be sitting there, and you’re like, Wow, I can’t believe I thought of that. Like that’s so profound. And you get to a place where you’re not afraid to, to claim that and be like, you know, I’m you know, I’m kind of a creative genius. And you because we get stifled so much. And we get told, especially as a woman, we’re told so much that to shrink, you know, don’t take up too much space. Don’t be too loud, don’t be too different. And that is literally what makes us so unique. And so beautiful, not just the way that we look. But just like the inside and the way that we engage with the world and the way that we see ourselves and it also affects the way that you see other people. And so that self expression piece is for me what was missing in my journey. And I think for a lot of people, especially if you’re a neurodivergent multi passionate, creative like I am that piece is going to be extremely important.

Summer:
Yeah, just I mean exactly what you said like it just started when you’re constantly thinking about your body when you’re constantly thinking about food and exercise. Like it’s like it is all consuming and it’s completely stifling as you said. And it is amazing when you reclaim that time and energy and space back like what you know, you’re like, oh, wow, like I have space for these other interests or I have courage to do these things. And yeah, I mean, I’ve actually worked with a couple of artists over the years and seen that, like, they were afraid to put their work in the world, they didn’t have time and space to even do their art, and then they were able to reclaim that. So I do think it’s like, it is so important, and I love that you are, you know, able to help those people. How does being neurodivergent sort of intersect with that, because I know you just sort of threw that in there. So but for for someone like myself, who is neurotypical mostly, I think, I don’t even know, a little bit off that. But like, how does that intersect with that just out of curiosity?

Tiffany:
So this has been this has been an interesting year for me, because I just got diagnosed with ADHD this year. And prior to that, I was just always like, man, something was wrong with my brain, like, why can I Why Why can I do XYZ? Why am I unable to focus on XYZ? Why am I always veering off and having all these different interests when I was supposed to be focusing on this, and I realized, after my diagnosis, everything like kind of clicked into place, I was like, this makes so much sense. And I realized that like, I need multiple outlets of expression. And it was something that made me not trust myself, but it wasn’t my fault. It was because of the neurotypical world saying, This is what you need to do X, Y, Z. But it just didn’t work for my brain, the way that my brain is set up. And so it that in and of itself made me doubt myself and feel like I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing enough. My one of my core negative beliefs that I had to kind of battle with was that I’m not enough. And so that that one core belief permeated into every piece of my life. And definitely, it’s not my body image, which translate it to my body isn’t enough, I need to change it. And so making that connection and realizing how being neurodivergent played into the way that I saw myself, I saw my body, and I saw the work that I put out, it really just kind of opened up all new worlds for me. And you know, prior to this year, I was really kind of scared to talk about the self expression side, because I’m like, Well, what if people are going to be like, you know, this isn’t important. Like, this isn’t the important part. And I was after my diagnosis, and I’m realizing how important that actually is for me. And for people like me, I was like, No, this is this is we’re talking about this, like this is going into what I teach, and that’s what I’m most passionate about. Because I want people to be as much themselves as possible, and to be as unapologetic in their selves as they possibly can. And the reason for that is not is not so that people can just be like, Hi, I’m here taking up space, so that they can be like, listen, whatever the world is saying, like I hear it, but I’m resilient now because I know who I am. And I know how I want to express myself. So they don’t have to be swayed by that. It’s very easy to be when it’s creative people we we are very, we can be sensitive, and we’re really hard on ourselves already. And then to add the societal standards on top of that, like that just completely makes us so bogged down by the weight of what we’re being taught to believe and to think and to do. And moving away from that. It’s really important for me as someone with ADHD, because I’m like, I’m never going to show up in the world, as you know, with the societal standards in any way, shape, or form. So I may as well just go and turn around and embrace who I am. So that I can be free and live with joy.

Summer:
I love that on that note. We’ll wrap it up here. Where can people find more of you tivity

Tiffany:
my main place is Instagram. So Tiffany Ima on Instagram. And my website is Tiffany ima.com. And I will make sure you have a link to my freebie, the body piece checklists so that you can get started on your journey too

Summer:
amazing. It was such a pleasure. It’s maybe it’s almost good that we waited because like I feel like this was such a good conversation. Not that it wouldn’t have been back then to but I feel like you’ve got like greater self awareness with your you know, your ADHD diagnosis and, and how that’s really sort of impacted everything as well. But it was such a pleasure. And I’m super excited for people to listen to this episode. Thank you so much for being here today.

Tiffany:
Thank you, Summer. This was so great.

Summer:
Rock on.

I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did such a pleasure to have him on the show who I feel like I’ve been following forever and to actually hear a little bit more about their story and to share it and I’ve been trying to get Tiffany on the show for years and it’s always been a bit of like a scheduling conflict and we’ve had to push it back numerous times. So it was really exciting to finally be able to put this interview out into the world. You can find all the links and resources mentioned at summer innanen.com forward slash 289. Thank you so much for being here today. I’ll talk to you next time rock on.

I’m Summer Innanen. And I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer Innanen. And if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts search eat the rules and subscribe rate and review this show. I would be so grateful. Until next time, rock on.