We also talk about the Body Image Coach Certification program and our experience with the new format.

Don’t forget, I’m on iTunes! You can be one of my kick-ass subscribers. Also, I would be SO GRATEFUL if you took 2 minutes to leave a review. Go here -> click “Reviews and Ratings” and then “Click to Rate”.

Summer:
This is episode 304 and it’s a new episode. It was supposed to be a rerun, but we popped in a new one, because Danny Amapoundcake Adams and I had to get together to talk about some of the trends that we’re seeing that are influencing our body image and body liberation as a whole. And two of those trends are weight loss drugs and our culture’s fixation with looking younger. So we are having a nuanced discussion about that today. We also talk about our body image coach certification program and our experience with the latest cohort and the new format, because our fall cohort is currently open for enrollment, and we start in September. So you definitely want to check that out. If you are curious about becoming a certified body image coach, you can find the links mentioned at summer innan.com, forward slash 304,

I want to give a shout out to Jay bells, 1234, who left this review. Very interesting and helpful podcast, reframing ways I’ve been conditioned to think about myself and my worth. Summers kind and thoughtful words are helping me on my path to accepting my middle aged body and to see that it is society and its messaging that needs to change, not me love it. Now onto something totally new for this new season that’s going to be starting in September. That’s starting a little bit early with this episode, I have started an account on kofi, which is spelled K, O, dash, f, i, and it’s similar to Patreon. To be honest, I don’t really know the difference, but I chose it because my friend Vinny has a ko fi account, and it allows you to support the podcast. So it’s been a bit of a different year for me going back to school to get my master’s degree. My financial situation has changed quite a bit, and as a result, I have to make some business decisions in order to keep certain aspects of the business afloat and let some other things go in order to keep things operational for the next two years until I graduate. And so the podcast costs a lot of money to produce. There’s a lot that goes into it. There’s my incredible assistant, Julia, who does a lot of the behind the scenes work, including doing the show notes and helping to create social media images and other aspects of the production as well. I have an incredible editor. His name is jorgos. I hope I said that, right? We’ve never actually talked, but he’s been working on this podcast for years, like nine years, eight years, I think. And so it’s one of those interesting relationships, where it’s like we know each other, but we’ve never actually spoken, and that doesn’t even include my own labor that goes into the show, including all of the hours that I spend researching for solo episodes, researching for guest interviews, reading their books and actually recording the interviews. So it’s a lot of time and money that goes into this podcast, and in order to keep it on for another season. I need your help. You can support this podcast for as little as $5 a month. You just go to kofi.com forward slash summer in and in that’s spelled K, O, dash, fi.com, forward slash summer innan. I’m also going to link that in the show notes, as well as in the description for this episode. So if you go to info, you’ll see that link there. And when you do that, when you contribute $5 a month, you’re going to keep the show on the air as well. You’re going to get my free mini course conquering negative BodyTalk. There’s a couple other contributions you can make too that allow you to get a shout out on the show as well as be able to submit a question for me to do a podcast episode around. So those are some other options as well, but for $5 you get the free mini course conquering negative BodyTalk. So definitely good value there, and it helps to contribute to keeping the show on the air. I want to keep this information as free as I can, but I can only do that to a certain extent, and I’m at a point where I need some support to get that done as I finish my school program over the next couple of years. Okay, as always, you can grab the free 10 day body confidence makeover at summer Inn and in.com forward slash freebies, with 10 steps to take right now to feel better in your body. And if you’re a professional who works with people who also have body image struggles. Get the free body image coaching roadmap, which is also newly updated at summer innan.com forward slash roadmap. All right, let’s get into the show.

This is eat the rules, a podcast about body image, self worth, anti dieting and intersectional feminism. I am your host, summer innan, a professionally trained coach specializing in body image, self worth and confidence, and the best selling author of body image remix. If you’re ready to break free of societal standards and stop living behind the number on your scale, then you have come to the right place.

Welcome to the show.

This episode of eat the rules is brought to you by you on fire. You on fire is the online group coaching program that I run that gives you a step by step way of building up your self worth beyond your appearance with personalized coaching from me, incredible community support and lifetime access to the program so that you can get free from body shame and live life on your own terms. Get details on what’s included and sign up for the next cycle at summer innan.com. Forward slash. You on fire. I’d love to have you in that group. Hello. Hi, Danni, how are you good?

Amapoundcake:
We made it work. We’re here.

Summer
We are here, we’re here. We made it. we just wrapped up our latest cohort of the body image coach certification program. How do you think it went?

Amapoundcake:
I think the program went pretty well. We had a really good engaged group, which I always think we have pretty good engagement for our groups, but this was definitely a group that loved to talk. I think this program, some of the changes that we made just brought in some new dynamic elements from more role playing was incorporated the case studies. Seemed like everybody was into the case studies and just getting more unique ways to practice. I think it went. I think it went good. How do you feel?

Summer:
Yeah, I really liked the new format. I think we got a lot of positive feedback. So for people listening, the new format is a lot of the teachings, like the kind of the foundational materials that’s available in an online component. So people complete it at their own pace, and then we meet once a month for six months to do integration. And that’s where we take Okay, here’s what you’ve learned the last couple of weeks. And now here’s a case study, like, how would you use that with this person? And how you know, what’s your own personal experience with this, or what challenges are you finding? And let’s practice. Let’s actually practice this now. Let’s, let’s watch you practice the amongst each other, and we can give you feedback on that. And I think that we didn’t have as much time for that before, because we were spending most of the class teaching the material. So now that people can see the material on their own. And then when we get together, it’s actually like, Okay, how are we, you know, how are we integrating this, and what does this look like in practice and and I thought we had such an amazing group of people. I thought they offered really, you know, diverse professions, diverse backgrounds. We had a doctor, we had some therapists, we had eating disorder recovery practitioners, PhD students, yes. PhD student. We had, yeah. We had someone from Taiwan, which was really cool to have just a different world worldview and experience in in their region versus, you know, what we what we kind of see in North America. We had people from Mexico, yeah, it was really cool. I was really happy with it. So we’re excited to offer it again in the fall. And the enrollment is open at the time of this broadcasting, and it will be open until September, September 4. So if you’re curious about which is

Amapoundcake:
Beyonce birthday, if you need a reminder.

Summer:
Oh, my God. How do we compete with that?

Amapoundcake:
All right, we cannot but make sure you sign up. Yeah, it’ll be Beyonce’s birthday gift if you sign up. And you know, one thing I wanted to pull out about the class summer, I think, with the new structure, it allowed folks to be able to, like, process the information this time, and kind of come back to us and say, like, I’m actually having a hard time understanding this material or doing this in practice, I understand, I hear what you saying, but you know, people found some things to be challenging, which is good. It’s a learning space, and then by the end of the class, like in our check ins, folks seem to have more of an understanding and a plan of how they would go out and practice it, which is really good. The peer to peer learning, not just from us, but the peer to peer learning setup is, is really helpful.

Summer:
Yes, exactly. Yeah, that’s such a good point. I think that, like giving people the opportunity to digest it on their own is, is super helpful. And for anyone curious, it’s not, it’s not like a tremendous amount of time, it’s. It’s, you know, to go through each module. Each module is about an hour, and there’s 11 modules, but we encourage people to complete that over six months. So you’re looking at, you know, a couple hours a month over the course of of six months. And then there’s demonstrations to support all the different tools that we present in the program and and a whole bunch of other resources and bonuses. So yeah, you can check it out. And we also have our Foundations Program, which is just the online content. So that’s for people who maybe already have an existing practice, or they want to do the certification, but at a later time, but they want to get started and do the material, and that’s available as well, and that is just access to that online the online materials, the 11 modules, whereas the certification, we do a lot more integration work, and there’s a lot of other bonuses that come with the certification, including being able to be listed on the directory as a certified body Image coach,

Amapoundcake:
yeah. And I think one of the things too, is like also to get a certification, to be able to do the in in assignment, which is the case studies, is an amalgamation of all the materials, the theories, you know, the tech, the techniques, how would you apply them? And it’s not too difficult. We give folks a month after the course is over to be able to turn that into summer. And I have to take a deep dive before we we give out the certification. Isn’t difficult, right? But we also want to make sure that people are representing this program, and really going out to not just this program, but really going out into the community and doing dynamic work and helping turn some of this shit around, you know, for people,
yeah, and we’re gonna talk about what some of that shit is in a bit.

Summer:
And I think that what I wanted to add to that is just that I think we feel so good about these new practitioners, like they’re not necessarily new practitioners, but in whatever profession they have, and then adding this to their tool belt, so they’re in the directory. And so for example, if you’re looking for a dietitian who also has been trained to support with body image, or you’re looking for a therapist that specifically been trained, then you can find that directory and be able to locate those professionals and connect with those professionals, and know that they’ve been through our program, that they’ve worked with us and with the new structure of the certification, that you know that we’ve worked intimately with them to to put them in the best spot to work with clients around around these struggles, and so I think that’s the part that’s also really exciting to me, is that it’s got this, you know, if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re looking for a practitioner, like we’ve got a small directory, but we’ll hopefully continue to grow as more people go through our course and program. And we’re really proud to to represent those, those individuals, and encourage people to work with them.

Amapoundcake:
Yeah, I have nothing to echo. Amen.

Summer:
Okay, so check it out, body image coach, certification.com, and you can always email us for more details. And now let’s get into the said shit you were referring to earlier. Let’s talk about what what are you noticing within the current climate, as it relates to beauty standards, body positivity? What are you noticing? Because, like, I know we kind of connect. We always do this podcast, like every six months together, but I feel like stuff has changed or is changing. And so what are you noticing?

Amapoundcake:
You know, well, first I want to say, like, nothing that I’m noticing is something that wasn’t easily predictable, like we have covid Come in, and everyone’s like, covid, wait, covid, wait, covid. Wait. There was a lot of body shaming, but the body positivity movement is big. Is, is, you know, is massive at this point, is far more commercialized than it was before. But my concerns at that time y’all can go fat, check me. I was on a lot of platforms saying this, the more that body positivity and fat liberation rest on the influencer and that we do not have a complete system of people on unlearning the harmful impacts of this. We are going to regress. And I think we’re at the moment where we are regressing, and we see that there is more push for more weight loss drugs. We have major CE celebrities, the Osbornes Oprah pushing ozempic, putting a lot of money behind mass media push pushes with influencers. You see influencers who were body positive at one point now, all of a sudden, it. They are saying, well, this, this is my body, my choice. I should be able to lose weight. And I have never been against folks losing weight. The problem becomes in in the way that you do it, and how how the marketing is done, and so, yeah, I mean, what I’m seeing right now, I think, is, we’re, we’re we’re regressing, we’re back in a harmful place. What you think?

Summer:
Yeah, I think that body positivity, and I put those in quotation marks, but, you know, had this big moment and and kind of like everything, like it’s sort of, everything kind of goes one way and then ricochet is back the other way. And I think that we’re witnessing that right now, and I’m seeing a lot of the discourse online being around there’s just so much more pressure to to be thinner. And, you know, weight stigma is even worse. Now people’s experiences at the doctor is even worse because doctors are just saying, well, now we’ve got this quote, unquote miracle drug. And I think that it’s, I think that what I’ve sort of said, and I know, like you’ve said this a lot, as well, as well as other people, but you know, body positivity was never gonna change anything. You know it, it was never gonna eradicate weight stigma. And I think we’ve now, we’ve seen that, that it that that’s not, that’s not what’s gonna eradicate weight stigma. And so I think that there’s a real increased pressure on people to to be in a smaller body and to lose weight. And I’m seeing that with my clients. I’m seeing that with, you know, just discussions online, when I lurk around and look at what people are saying, I think it’s had a pretty big impact, and will probably continue to do so until things go the other way again, which they probably will at some point.

Amapoundcake:
Yeah, I also think that fat influencers have always been in a difficult position, and this is why I thought that, you know, it is unfair to put our movement on vulnerable people through a and I don’t say that in a way that that doesn’t mean that fat influences are not responsible, but vulnerable folks online. What I mean by that is fat people are most one of the most marginalized group, especially if they hold other identities, like myself being black, the algorithms obviously do not support them if there’s if this is the way they’re making their money off they’re making their living. At some point there is going to be a pivot in order to make ends meet at the house. That is how capitalism functions. I’ve always been a big supporter of organizations like Nafa and getting getting organized. If you’ve ever read the book the power of plus, I mentioned in that mentioned in that book where I really mentioned that community organizing is far more important than all of us getting online saying we should love our bodies because that’s going to die. I’ve been working in social justice for a very long time, over 10 years. And this is the first movement that I’ve seen kind of structure in this way that the movement is mostly, if it’s not, if it’s the online space, it is led by the influencer, if it’s the academic space of that, it is led by the White and or close to white. And so, right? And so, because who gets to be the academic and so, all of these things are problem, but I think we need to get behind organizations like Napa, who do have great politics while trying to push policy which also creates structures to be able to hold big corporations. I’m not saying this is their plan, but I’m saying getting organized and also programs like ours, right, is when I don’t know about you, not to take us up pivot, but every day I am getting messages from these weight loss drug companies to move or endorse their drug the more we have folks who are equipped with the messaging understanding that this is bigger than ourselves. This is this is bigger than likes and clicks and individual people, that this is about systems and making sure that people are safe within our society. Then, you know, I think that we would be on the right track, but we haven’t gotten there. Um, and a big part of it is, I’m gonna be honest, there is no incentive for white people of all sizes to really ground themselves in a movement. There’s what I mean by that is that white people can always escape. Whatever marginalized thing that they attach themselves with, being fat, being marginalized for being for their body, why people know that they’re that privilege, and they took up a lot of space in the body positivity movement, and now they want to be the face of a white a white drug, also weight loss drug, and not to absolve Oprah of accountability, of being a billionaire who’s also a black woman, but the reality is, the people that I mostly see pushing this and then quoted in these articles are white women who who were mid sized to begin with, saying, Come on gang, let’s get it moving.

Summer:
Yes, yes. 100% 100% and the argument of body autonomy, I think that that’s something to be brought into this conversation too, right? Because that’s what we’ll hear people say, is, well, it’s body autonomy. I’m allowed to talk about whatever I want. I’m allowed to do whatever I want, and I think that both you and I agree with body autonomy, yes, you can do whatever you want, but I think that when you have influence, and that influence is upholding weight stigma and perpetuating anti fatness, then that’s where the problem lies, And I think that that’s what we’re seeing in a lot of these instances, is people saying, well, it’s my choice, it’s my body. That’s great. What’s the greater impact that it’s having on on our culture and on our systems? You know, even though influencers may not necessarily like influence a system. I think indirectly, they do. I think that it’s just the discourse. It’s the it’s, you know, people feeling more comfortable talking about these things openly, weight loss, drugs and losing weight and stuff. And so I don’t think that you or I and you can obviously speak for yourself, are necessarily like against someone as an individual taking this drug, I think what we are, what we’re, where we see the problem is the overall impact that this has on the systems and making doctors visits even worse, making access to health care even worse. We talked about you and I privately about how ozempic as a diabetes drug is less available and less accessible to black individuals in the US, specifically as a result of what’s happening with it being pushed for weight loss, and so people who actually need drugs for medical conditions like diabetes are having a harder time getting it and and it’s more expensive. And so who’s, who’s actually, you know, who’s really being hurt at the end of the day with all of this,

Amapoundcake:
the most marginalized forever, yeah, and also the people who have the A History of a most negative experience with healthcare providers in general. There’s so much in research about medical racism, and you know, if they let that man become president, we will see, we will see more marginalization regarding this. But that’s the thing, you know, I’ve always stood on the side of I understand why people, individuals, want to lose weight, especially black and brown people, because encountering doctors and the fear of, if I am big, I will have more medical complications, and which means that I have to have more interactions with the doctor, which means that my safety, you know, is my safety is a concern, and we have to be sympathetic and empathetic to that. And so I completely understand what’s happening, but I do not support the idea that there isn’t accessibility for the people who actually need this for their health, because, you know, this thing that other folks are running away for their fourth it’s just a cycle, right? It’s a cycle of medical neglect at the end of the day, yeah, that needs to, needs to stop you.

Summer:
And I put up a post about, you know, has have weight loss drugs ruined body positivity for a workshop that we did about supporting clients in the age of ozempic. And I think one of the comments was, is there any, is there something wrong with fat people wanting to avoid future health complications, like, Is it, is it fat phobic to want to change your lifestyle? That was one of the questions that we got.

Amapoundcake:
What do you think?

Summer:
Okay, put it back on me first. Okay. Yeah. I think that, you know, when we talk about health, we can talk about that separate from weight loss, right? Like, if we talk, if we want to talk about changing lifestyle, sure, increased sleep, drinking more water, getting some fresh air, you know, all these things. And of course, there are barriers to those things. It’s a privilege to be able to have access to those types of things. So I don’t think it’s fat phobic to want to change somebody’s lifestyle, but I think that often lifestyle is code for weight loss. I think it’s health is code for weight loss. And I think that, again, if that’s what somebody wants to do. There’s a lot of, you know, of course, it makes a lot of sense. Some people need life saving surgery that they they cannot have unless they lose weight, gender affirming surgery, fertility treatments. There’s all these different barriers that require someone to have a certain BMI. And so it makes perfect sense that somebody would want to, you know, it comes from this place of safety and protection and wanting to live the life that they want to live. And so I think it makes a lot of sense. I think that again, where, where I take issue is when health and weight are just included, wrapped up, tied up in the same conversation, without looking at what are really the barriers to health? How can we look at those things? You know, what about the role of weight stigma and health? What about the role of weight cycling and health? And again, like, I never want someone to feel bad for wanting to lose weight, especially like, as a straight size person, I hold a lot of privilege, and so I understand it makes sense. If somebody wants to lose weight, I think it’s just so I want to make it clear, there’s nothing wrong with with a fat person wanting to lose weight to avoid potential, you know, health complications or anything like that. But I think a lot of the time, sometimes those health complications don’t necessarily always get solved by by losing weight as well. And so that’s where I stand on that. What about you?

Amapoundcake:
I think my my thoughts are really quite similar to yours, but I know this is a little bit off topic, but I I think that also folks have this fear of not being able bodied for the rest of their lives, and there’s a little bit of ableism that is really wrapped up in that, also in that fat phobia, and that has been on my heart quite a bit. So I don’t know if I told you, but, like, I’ve I should have told you, but I was trying to, like, dance with these kids and, like, teach them how to Dougie, and I feel and hurt my leg and, like, all the things, I’m on crutches. Um, oh, well, yes. Well, supposed to be on crutches. Supposed to be on crutches. But, you know, I really don’t like the crutches. Anyway, I was thinking about like, wow, in a in this moment, I am temporarily, as far as I know, right now, right temporarily disabled. And I think that sometimes when I hear people talking about health, they think, if you do these things, you know, when you get old, you won’t even feel it. You’re really gonna be like a 40 year old. And it’s like, Come on, guys, you know, it’s really people need to get okay with aging. They need to get okay with that bodies to change that life, when you talk about life or lifestyle, there’s things that can happen in your life that can change anything. Today, you got access to food. Tomorrow, you may not. Today, you can walk tomorrow, you may not, and it has nothing to do with a weight loss supplement. Is almost like the messaging is, it’s not health or die. It is really be thin, able bodied in white or die. And that’s literally the message that I feel that comes from the health community. It is literally covid in anti blackness and ableism,

Summer:
yes. And then classism comes in because, yeah, well, when we think about who has access to health care, who has access to weight loss drugs, who can afford the How much is it a month? Like, 1000 bucks, 500 bucks, like a lot, it’s a lot of money.

Amapoundcake:
My HSA card Don’t stretch that long,

Summer:
yeah. And so I think that it’s like, that’s part of the conversation too. Is, is it’s furthering, you know, it’s continuing to uphold classism, and how it relates to all that. And also, who do we think of? What’s the image that comes to mind when we think of wealth, you know, we think of whiteness, I think predominantly being tied to that. And so again, so much of it being rooted in anti blackness. And so being able to see these things, whether or not someone decides to use these weight loss drugs, I think, is needs to be a part of the conversation.

Amapoundcake:
Yeah, we are here.

Summer:
What have you seen? Like, I’ve seen issues with weight loss, drugs, in terms of clients, or just like, discussions that you’ve had with with people. Some of the things I’ve seen is people who were have worked really hard at. Accepting their bodies and changing their relationship with food, and now this has kind of derailed them a bit, or made them question themselves, made them question the path that they’re on. I’ve also seen, like, a lot of increased weight stigma. What have you seen?

Amapoundcake:
Honestly, yeah, I mean, I don’t know if folks have heard about, like, the ozempic body. That’s a whole conversation now, like, oh, when you get off ozempic, you have a ozempic body, because in most cases, with rapid weight loss, people have excess skin. So now the goal post is moving like you can’t just lose the 50 pounds rapidly. You can’t just lose the 100 pounds. The thing that you have to do next is now you need to get plastic surgery because you are no longer desirable. I mean, the goal post continues to move and move and move. It’s an expense, right? It’s classism. It is. You are not beautiful and desirable until you meet our standard. And I think that maybe here or other places, well, in our course, I talk about how Kimberly Nicole Foster has this video on YouTube. Maybe it’s on her for Harriet channel, where she talks about the Kardashians will never stop changing their bodies because they see their body as currency. And I think that now that we are, I love to use that phrase, because now that we are in the era of ozempic, it’s the same thing, right? It’s like people’s bodies are never going to be good enough, especially in a social media era where people are supposed to show off their weight loss up. No, now you can’t do it because you’re not fat anymore, but you’re definitely don’t meet the desirable standards of being there. And then that’s also something else that I’m seeing where people are letting this weight loss journey really consume their lives. Um, like, Wait till I get to this, wait till I do this. Wait till I get to this side. I follow a couple people that I love and adore, love and adore, but they are about to weight loss me to death with their with their vision of their of the future of weight loss. And sometimes I really feel sad. You know, it’s, it’s a little bit of heartbreak, like you can go to the park now you can get a date now, yeah, totally, all the things, yeah,

Summer:
yeah. I think that there’s that belief, and then there’s the other belief too, about like, well, if I just use this, then I’ll be able to maintain it with, like, quote, unquote, lifestyle changes. And I think that that is just that magical thinking, like, this is going to be the be all in solution. This is like the miracle, but I think it’s the same shit. It’s like, if, anytime you do any form of extreme weight loss, you have this belief that, like, well, then I’ll just maintain it through lifestyle changes. And that never, that rarely, rarely happens. I did a podcast episode with asher larmy, who is who has really done a lot of work looking at all of the different research papers that come out around weight loss drugs. So if people are more curious about like the weight regain and the side effects and all that stuff, then definitely check out that episode. I’ll I’ll leave that in the show notes, but I think that that’s another issue that I’m seeing and and also, just like people, I’ve seen some people online talk about how they’ve lost weight and they still hate their body, and they still have this bad relationship with food, and they thought that this was going to fix it all. And as we you and I both know like that doesn’t fix it. Like that might change your experience in the world, but it doesn’t change your inner world. It doesn’t change how you feel about yourself and and that’s obviously the work that that we do with clients and that we teach practitioners to do with clients.

Amapoundcake:
Yeah, honestly, you know. And I also think about this, and I won’t harp on this too long, it’s like, we’re raising the next generation and they’re watching us, and Gen alpha is online, and it’s like, what we do in this moment really is gonna set the tone about how future generations see their bodies, and I’m not cool with what we’re teaching. You know, we have a generation of young people who are obsessed with skincare. Because of us, we’re pushing young people to think that they need to not age, and they’re afraid of being old, and it’s like, Here, baby, you’re not you’re 12, what are you talking about here? You already have your youth. I think there’s just so much that is coming out, and that’s why I think coming out of this conversation, and that’s why I really think that influencers really do have to be responsible. I don’t think they have to carry the movement, but I think that they have to be responsible with their platforms.

Summer:
100% Yeah, that’s I mean influence, right? Like the word is literally right there you have influence. What are you doing with that? And, yeah, the whole skin care thing, it really i It’s so disturbing to see, because I do not when i. In my teens, when I was in my 20s, I didn’t I couldn’t care less about my skin like at all, and so it was never even a thing. And so now that’s layered on top of having to look you have your body look a certain way. Now your skin has to look a certain way. I see people who are like in their 20s, like worrying about looking like they’re in their 30s. And as someone who’s like, halfway through their 40s, I look and I’m like, you don’t even know what you have. But also it’s just ages like, why do we need everyone to have the skin like they’re 20 years old?

Amapoundcake:
Like we don’t we don’t need everybody to have skin like they’re 20 years old. But however, there is a skincare brand that I really like. I think it’s called topicals. It’s owned by a Black and Asian youth, and like all of the models that they use are people with acne. And even though there is people post before after, actually, they really promote that their cleansers are for people who will have acne forever. And I really think that that is such a cool and dynamic thing. There’s a documentary about black skincare and beauty brands on YouTube. I mean, at YouTube on Netflix, I think people that brand is on there, but overall, like children using retinol. Come on now, you know, eye cream, anti aging cream. I when I was a child, really just used sunscreen. I’m not I’m not sure what has changed about skin, except that people, one is, see this as a form of self care. I always thought that was dangerous. I mean, can be, but why is everything? You know, look, don’t let me get on the rent, because I will, and I don’t want to take up too much of the viewers time, but you know, it’s really unnecessary, and I hope that we can start having the difficult conversations that we need to have, and that’s why I think our program is so important because in our program, we kind of we help our practitioners create, help their clients create self care plans. They’re not that are not rooted in beauty, that is not rooted in weight loss, that people can actually spend time with themselves, their families take breaks and rest and all the things, and also, like, fill up their time with something other than obsessing over their weight. I love that our program really addresses the history of some of these stigmas. And also, how do we have the right conversations with our clients, opening up the with the right questions so you can build a relationship, so a relationship that is rooted in trust, so that you can help your your clients meet the goals that they that they want to meet. And I think with that, for those folks, a lot of a lot of our folks say that their clients are have children, and that’s what’s beautiful about this program, the more that we help other practitioners, help their clients. Their clients have children, and they’re a part of different communities across the globe. And I think that this program is really making an impact in and no matter how the conversation has shifted, what I appreciate about you and our summer is we haven’t folded or or changed our stance. So, like, We will not go with the trends. Ozempic be gone.

Summer:
Okay, pretty much. Yeah, I think that it’s like, but these are the nuanced conversations we have to be prepared to have with our clients. Like, we can’t tell a client like, Well, you shouldn’t take weight loss drugs, you shouldn’t do this with your body like, you know we need to be we need to develop the skills to be able to to be able to coach them, to be able to work with them, knowing that like they are, they are the ones in charge of their body. They’re the ones in charge of making those decisions for their body. But we can help them to make the decision that is that is really going to be best for them in in the long term, and developing those skills, instead of just having a client in front of you and you’re telling them, like, well, if you take ozempic, there’s going to be all these side effects, and you’re you’re going to gain all the way back and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah like that doesn’t change people’s minds. Like helping people to really like asking them questions, like, what do you think is going to happen? What what would be better for you? And like, truly understanding and having compassion and empathy and and and working with them on it, and even if that means like, taking more of like, a harm reduction approach, knowing that maybe they are taking those drugs. Okay, well, what else can you do to minimize the risk of them taking those drugs, you know, minimize the risk to their mental health, minimize the risk to their physical health. And so those are the things that we really that we really teach in our program, and and, and we want practitioners to feel really comfortable being equipped with skills to be able to work with clients around those things. I feel like we’re done. I feel like that’s it. We wrap it up. Okay, so you can find more about the body image coach certification program at Body Body Image coach certification.com if you ever have any questions or you’re curious, reach out to myself or Danny and follow our new Instagram page at Institute. At Institute for body image. So that is our organization that we have co created, that our programs sit under, under and so we created a separate Instagram, check that out and give us a follow so that we can get to more than 100 people at the time,

Amapoundcake:
yeah, but that’s good, you know? And just less than a week getting 100 people and you know what? What about one of our posts got almost 700 likes already, yeah, that’s good. Yeah, we’re good. We’re good.

Summer:
Well, as always, it’s a pleasure chatting with you in here, having public conversations instead of private ones,

Amapoundcake:
I know right.

Summer:
Where can people find you?

Amapoundcake:
Oh yes, I’m Amapoundcake. A-M-A pound cake. I’m a pound cake. And I wouldn’t be on all platforms. amapoundcake.com but it wouldn’t be me if I didn’t tell you guys this. It is election season. Please vote and vote the way you think I would want you to vote.

Summer:
We are both wearing blue today. Okay, yes, we are.

Amapoundcake:
Not that you need to read into anything, into that, but, all right,

Summer:
thank you for being here.

Amapoundcake:
Thank you. Bye.

Summer:
Thank you so much for being here today and for listening. You can find the show notes at summer Inn and in.com forward slash 304, I did link to the video by Kimberly Nicole Foster on the Kardashians. It just, it’s just like a one minute clip, but it’s so good, so head over to the show notes and you can check that out. Don’t forget to consider supporting this podcast. Via ko fi K O dash fi.com forward slash summer in and in and thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you. Rock on.

I’m Summer Innanen, and I want to thank you for listening today. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at summer innan, and if you haven’t yet, go to Apple podcasts, search, eat the rules and subscribe, rate and review this show I would be so grateful until next time rock on you.